Surviving Postpartum Psychosis
Episode 59: Surviving Postpartum Psychosis with Ayana Lage @ayanagabriellelage
In this episode, Rachael has a candid chat with Ayana Lage, writer, influencer and mental health advocate, who shares her experience with postpartum psychosis. Ayana details the devastating toll postpartum psychosis took on her and her family, as well as how it impacted future family planning. She discusses the symptoms she experienced, the hospitalization process, and the support she received in the aftermath. Ayana also talks about the decision process to have another child, and how she and her husband are preparing for postpartum this time around.
Inside this episode:
All about the serious and under-discussed condition: postpartum psychosis.
Signs and symptoms of postpartum psychosis
The impact that support from friends and family, including checking in and providing practical help, can provide during the postpartum period and beyond
How to set boundaries and prioritize self-care during pregnancy and postpartum
The value in sharing experiences and raising awareness about postpartum mental health
Why we need to dismantle the stigma attached to this condition and to medication and treatment for postpartum mothers
How to prepare for postpartum with a history of perinatal mood disorders
And so much more!
Mentioned in this episode:
Ayana’s website: https://ayanalage.com/
Ayana’s instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ayanagabriellelage
Ayana’s postpartum psychosis article: https://www.cosmopolitan.com/health-fitness/a43340622/postpartum-psychosis-personal-essay/
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Rachael is a mom of 3, founder of Hey, Sleepy Baby, and the host of this podcast.
Listen to the full episode
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Welcome to No One Told Us, the podcast that tells the truth about parenting and
talks about all the stuff you wish you knew before having kids. I am your host,
Rachael, and today I'm so excited to speak with Ayana Lage, a lifestyle blogger and
freelance writer. She writes all about motherhood, mental health, social justice, and
everyday life on her Instagram page and blog. Ayana lives in Tampa, Florida with
has been a daughter and she's also right now 34 weeks pregnant, maybe by the time
this podcast comes out, you'll already have that baby here. So first of all, how
are you feeling? How are you doing getting ready to welcome number two?
I am, it's a loaded question, I feel very pregnant. That's my answer.
Yes. Yes. I'm feeling it all, all of the, all all the third trimester symptoms, but I'm excited. I think that it'll be, I feel more prepared than I did last time, which I guess isn't surprising, but also like, which we'll get into obviously my experience, but I feel more ready for postpartum
and just more equipped to kind of handle whatever life throws my way. So long story short, I'm excited not to be pregnant anymore. I'm excited for what's ahead.
And your daughter is three?
She turns four in a little, the time this comes out, she'll be four, but she turns four in a week and a half.
Okay, amazing. And so she knows what's going on. She is excited or apprehensive? How is she feeling? She is excited. I think it'll be one of those things where once he's actually here.
And she realizes that she doesn't have my undivided attention. It'll be an interesting, an interesting dynamic.
Yes, for sure.
But I do think it'll be good because she's old enough to understand. We've been
reading books about it and having a lot of conversations. So, so, it's so exciting.
Yeah. I actually, I tell people all the time, I think it's almost like trendy right now to have the two under two thing and have kids super close in age. But I say all the time, I think that bigger gap of three or four or even five years is so nice 'cause they do kind of get it a little bit more and they are a little bit more independent and like, I don't know, I think you're gonna like that age gap. It's really nice. And I do wanna talk about your last postpartum experience and have you share, you know, kind of what you're doing differently this time, but first I
would kind of just love to hear a little bit more about you and kind of how you got started with blogging and your Instagram page and sharing about such vulnerable topics.
Yeah, so my background is journalism. That's kind of like what I went to school for, what I thought that I'd be doing with my life. And so even though that isn't the path that I ended up taking, I feel like I have been used to writing about my life and just writing about vulnerable experiences publicly for a long time really since I was in college. So I started blogging in 2017. It's absolutely wild that it's almost seven years ago.
And yeah, I kind of, that was back when it was like actually really easy to grow following on Instagram. If anyone remembers those days where you know it wasn't like an algorithm game and so I started sharing about my life, writing some about mental health, being diagnosed with depression and anxiety and from there I was able to kind of like slowly but surely build a following.
Yeah one of the features of your page that I love and maybe this was how I was introduced to
your Instagram in the first place, I don't know, but you always do a great roundup of Monday tweets that are so funny. And yeah, I love that. And I also just love how you are so fearless with sharing about social justice issues and raising awareness for things that are so important for people to be aware of. And it's also very brave because you're in Florida.
Yeah, that I am…. Which, you know, I always say like, if I could leave, I would have probably already left, but my family is here, my life is here.
And of course.
Honestly, like I've been, I'm a lifelong Floridian, so I've been here before the political climate is what it's unfortunately become. So, but yeah, it is funny because I know a lot of people look at me I don't want to say pity but probably just like wow like that must be so interesting living there but you know it is what it is.
But it's what you know and like you said it's easier said than done for people to say oh just live somewhere else live somewhere more liberal or more progressive but if your whole life is there it's not that easy to just pick up and move. Yeah so I would love to kind of get into your
experiences with pregnancy and loss and postpartum, because you have shared so
vulnerably and so openly and honestly about things that I think a lot of people either have never really heard of or known someone that's gone through. I just think it's so important for people to kind of be aware of these signs and to know that this can happen and not in like a scary way or a way that's, you know, trying to make people think that it's going to happen to them, but just to be aware because I think a lot of us now are maybe aware of, you know, the more common things like postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety. But what you dealt with with postpartum psychosis is a lot more serious and a lot less common. So can you tell us a little bit about how that all came about?
Yeah. So to start, this is my third pregnancy. My first pregnancy ended in a miscarriage due to Trisomy 18 in 2019 and I, when I found out I was pregnant again, was so anxious about how the pregnancy was going to progress and just had a lot of, I don't even know, just a lot of emotions about whether the baby was going to be viable and how I was going to fare. This was also, I found out I was pregnant right around Christmas 2019. So at the start of my second trimester was also the start of the shutdown's beginning for the, because of the COVID pandemic. So it was a very, as anyone who had a baby during that time can tell you. It was a very isolating, very difficult time.
But I knew that I had a history of depression. So I wanted to be proactive. I did research. I had my husband do research. I knew the warning signs for postpartum depression. And I felt about as ready, I think, as I could have with the information that I had. In August of 2020,
I gave birth to my daughter a month early via emergency C And so there was like a
lot tied up in there.
Of course. That wasn't my ideal pictured birth. But after giving birth, rather than feeling the telltale signs of postpartum depression that I had kind of anticipated and dreaded and prepared for, I felt euphoric. I felt like I was on top of the world. I wasn't in pain from my C-section. I felt like I could have 10 more kids right away. And I think that some of that,
my loved ones chopped up to just, you know, she has just had a baby. It's her first baby. She was so nervous for this pregnancy, especially after how the, you know, how the first pregnancy ended that she's just loving it.
But my euphoria kind of took a bit of a turn into paranoia where I became convinced that no one else was capable of watching my daughter or and I know that like it's normal people might say like oh well you know a mother's instinct I don't want to hand my baby over either but I genuinely thought that she would be in danger with anyone but me, including my husband. So around this time, like things started to take a turn, my husband reached out to my psychiatrist and said, you know, hey, something is going on. Don't know if it's normal.
We don't know what's normal.
And I was reaching out to friends kind of around the clock, reaching out to people
I hadn't talked to in years to update them on the baby and again I think that
people have a lot of grace for new parents which I think is like obviously a good
thing but because of that it was just kind of murky and no one really knew like
hey is this something concerning or is this just hormones.
So when things took a turn toward like actually this being an issue of concern um
was when I started to hear audible messages from God telling me that my daughter
was the second coming of Jesus and I need to rewrite the Bible and a whole lot and I can make a list off every delusion that I had but those were the primary ones that
led my husband and my parents to kind of say okay I think that she needs more
care than we can provide at home.
What was that like when you were hearing those voices? Were you absolutely convinced that it was real? Or did you have another side of you that was like, wait, am I losing it? Like, is this something that I'm making up in my head? Or did it really feel real to you?
I think that I always assumed, and I think a lot of people probably make this mistake of thinking this can never happen to me. I'd be able to stamp out of it, to rationalize rationalize
my way out of it. I'm a very, you know, I'm not someone I like to think that I'm a skeptical person, you know, I'm not believing in chain letters and memes without researching them.
Right. I have this view of myself of like, I'm rational and I would not ever be susceptible to this. But no, when I was in it, it was like, just like, you know, I say just like, I can look outside and say the sky is blue. Um, I could say as a matter of fact that God was talking to me and I was a prophet now. Um, so very jarring for the people around me for sure.
Yeah, I'm sure that was really concerning. So how did they know what steps to take or what, what did they do for you at that point?
I had a moment where I, this is like, so this wasn't me like snapping out of it, but I do think that there was some, like my mind or my body was, I was looking out for myself. I just felt very, very scared. And I said to my, again, my parents and my husband were there around the clock helping with the baby and also keeping an eye on me. I said, "If I don't go to the hospital right now, I'm going to attempt to hurt myself."
And I just, I didn't know, it wasn't true. But in my mental state, it's just like, I had this urgency of like, I need to go to the hospital right now.
And that was like the cry for help, you need to say that to make people take you seriously.
To start moving very quickly. Because it's the middle of the pandemic, hospitals don't have visitors, my husband has told me after the fact, he's worried, okay, if I take her to the hospital and they bake her after, she's never going to forgive me for being away from the baby, not being able to see us being, I mean, I had a baby who was born preterm in the middle of a pandemic. So being in a hospital before vaccines, before we kind of like, got COVID more under control, like was my nightmare, because I was trying to be so careful for her.
But I knew somehow innately that I needed to go and I started to hallucinate for the first time in the ER a few minutes after arriving. So it was kind of like if I hadn't gone then, then I would have been at home or in the car and there wouldn't have been a medical team that would have been able to sedate me and it would have been like an even more awful experience
than it was.
Wow, and so how old was your daughter at this point?
She was 10 days old.
Oh wow, so this was very, very new, very early postpartum, okay. Then what did your kind of hospital stay look like? I know it was during COVID, so it was probably different than it maybe even would be now. But what did that look like? Did you have to get admitted or did they give you medication right away? Like how does that all work?
So I was admitted to the psych ward pretty much I, when I was admitted, um, I had a fever, so they kind of did COVID testing and made sure that I, that it wasn't COVID and it wasn't, I don't, I still don't know why I had, well, if it was part of the psychosis or, or what had me, so, um, feverish, but, um, I was admitted, I was there for 17 days total, um, the medications that they were trying were not working and I, um, was a bad patient.
I was offering prophecies left and right to other patients, i was claling home as often as i could reach the phones that they let all of us use to share new prophichies i was still convince that my daughter was only safe around me. So that was probably the hardest part because I was having these delusions that family members were going to hurt her, family members were going to kill her. And then I'm calling home to try to warn my husband and warn my
parents. And I could tell in their voices that they didn't believe me, which was infuriating. It was as infuriating as if I called my husband today and said, "Hey, I think her daughter is in danger and I could hear in his voice that it was kind of like…. Okay. Well, why do you think that and you know, what's kind of like…
Kind of like patronizing?
Yeah. Yeah, almost That's how it felt almost like, you know, of course. He's at home with our sleeping daughter and knows that she's perfectly fine. His concern is all focused on me and trying to talk me off the proverbial edge. But I'm like, I don't understand how you're able to be so calm when, when she's in danger.
So all that to say until they found a medication cocktail that worked for me. I was pretty miserable and just did not understand why I was in the hospital and why I couldn't be with my daughter.
Wow, that sounds so incredibly hard for so many different reasons. So when you were able to be discharged then, was it, you know, like outpatient care or what did that look like? Like how did they clear you to be able to go home and to be safe and all of that? Were they just kind of checking in on your medications at that point?
They, I found out after the fact that they reached a point where they were going to recommend that I be referred to a like longer -term residential facility if I did not approve on the Medication- because they basically tried everything except for one medication that's like an older generation anti -psychotic that ended up being the medication that broke enough of the delusions for me to kind of see clearly again. Even leaving the hospital, I still wasn't fully convinced that all the delusions were fake, but I was kind of lucid enough to not talk about it,
to basically just shut up and not tell anyone, "Hey, I'm thinking, I think all of these things."
I was coming back to myself and I was starting to be able to just say, "Okay, I don't think I should say that out loud because I don't think that makes sense." So from there, I started with therapy and psychiatric appointments pretty much weekly and that continued for several months.
Thank you so much for sharing so openly about that. It sounds like such a traumatic experience and the way that you talk about it will help so many people who might be going through it or maybe did go through it and feeling shame about it because there is kind of like
this stigma about things like this and especially about medication. I feel like postpartum moms feel like taking medication for mood disorders and psychosis is something that's like a weakness. It's really not.
We're going to be right back and we'll talk a little bit more about how you're preparing for postpartum this time.
We're back with Ayana and again, thank you so much for sharing so openly about
your experience with postpartum psychosis I'm curious about you know, how this kind of affected your relationships and Your plans for expanding your family were those conversations that you and your husband Had early on or was it something that you were like? I never want to go through that again. We're never having another kid like we're done. How did those conversations go in the months and years after your daughter was born?
I had always pictured myself having kids close Together. And I never thought I would do the two under two thing, but I also I am four years older than my twin sisters. And we weren't super close growing up. And I kind of had this mental picture of, okay, three years apart, absolute max, because I want my kids to be close growing up. But when my daughter was like a year and a half, I still wasn't entirely sure that I wanted to have another baby. Not even entirely because of the postpartum psychosis, but just as anyone will tell you, it's hard.
Yeah, especially during COVID. I mean, you were dealing with all of that plus the just regular pandemic that the rest of us were going through?
Yeah, yeah, so I was torn. I was leaning toward having another baby more than my husband was. I think that he, honestly, I feel like having lived that, I still would rather live it than have to
watch him go through it if I was given the option because I just cannot imagine how agonizing it was to not know if you were ever going to have a normal conversation with your loved one ever again. You know, is she permanently gone? Is this something that she can recover from? Like, those were questions that were kind of up in the air for a bit. So he was very, very hesitant.
We both did individual therapy just because we both had a lot to work through with everything that had happened. But I started to lean toward having another Probably when my daughter was about two and a half and I started talking to my psychiatrist about Making sure that my medication Combination was something that would be effective for me and also safe in pregnancy and postpartum and talking to my therapist about my fears about like,
What do I do if this happens again?
What if I, because I also felt embarrassed because I'd done and said things that I just like would not usually have done and said I feel like I'm like, Can be a very like image -focused person and very almost like anal about how I come across to people. So then completely losing control of that was like for me. It's kind of like a control freak’s nightmare. So I had all of
this swirling in my head and I think that for me the easiest thing to do or the like no -brainer especially when I talked to other people would be to never Have never get pregnant again never have another baby because like why would you risk that? but after talking to like my medical team I felt more I felt more confident that like okay, this is something that I can do again with adequate preparation and Having a really solid support system.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I love too that you mentioned that your husband did individual therapy because I think sometimes these experiences are of course traumatic for us but our partners go through a lot too and I think a lot of times they're either unwilling to address it or you know all the focus just gets put on mom and baby and the partners kind
of get left behind so I hope that that was helpful for him too because that piece is really important. We're going to take one more quick break and when we come back, we are gonna talk a little bit more about pregnancy and loss.
We're back with Ayana and you mentioned the decision to get pregnant again. And even when you were preparing to get pregnant with your Daughter after having a loss that you had a lot of fear and anxiety come up just because of the way that your first Pregnancy ended so tragically and you share about this and your blog and your Instagram page too. And again, it just makes other people feel so much less alone. This is a question that I get a lot. What was something that friends did for you or that family members said that was helpful for you during that time?
And that felt supportive. A lot of times people just don't really know what to say when they have a friend or a family member go through something so devastating and sometimes the things that we say can actually cause more harm. So I'd love to hear if you had any experiences with things that people said that were actually helpful.
I honestly think that the thing that helped the most was people just being like this really sucks. I didn't find much. I didn't find much value in people trying to do the whole well, at least, you know, at least you'll know that you at least you got pregnant quickly at least you can get pregnant again. You know, at least you weren't further along like the things people say because they're trying to make the most out of like a terrible situation. I think that for me, I'm like, I don't need anyone to problem solve or make me feel better because that's not going to work.
So when people would just literally come over and sit with us…. food was a big thing because I like you know just couldn't think about cooking so bringing food, sending gift cards, sending flowers which I know like I've read people who say and this is like person dependent, nothing is universal. I've read people who say, you know, I wouldn't want one more thing to worry about or take care of during a time of grief.
For me, it brightened up my house and I enjoyed it. I think though that the big thing was people checking in on me, like not just right after, but in the weeks and months to follow to say, hey, how are you're doing on like my original due date, you know, I have a couple of friends who remembered and checked in like that was so special to me.
Yeah, I'm sure. And what about your husband? Was there anything that he did or maybe didn't do that you would recommend to other partners who were maybe going through something like this?
Oh gosh. I think that The biggest help that he provided was just allowing me to grieve and to
feel all the things I was feeling without rushing me or making me feel irrational or making me feel like I was overreacting or anything like that. I think that he just did a really good job of holding space for what I was feeling. And also, he was open with me about his own grief. I think that that's something that maybe sometimes people struggle with.
Because it did happen to me. It was my body. It was my DNC. Like I mean, it felt very personal, but also like this was his Baby boy as well that we were looking forward to raising together. So Yeah, I think that just being supportive and he kind of took the lead on like a lot of the household stuff while I was still just kind of in the grief stage which was also super practical and helpful.
Yeah of course I think that'll be really helpful for people to hear. I think sometimes male partners in particular like you said it's not their body so they're not having that visceral embodied experience. And so it can be hard for them to know how to kind of relate. I know that this has been a really heavy conversation, especially for you to have while you're pregnant. So I really appreciate all the vulnerability and honesty and sharing this. I'd
love to kind of switch gears and talk about what you're most excited for with the
birth of this new baby boy.
That's such a good question. I think that I'm excited I'm excited for the newborn stage and the the first few months because I don't remember a lot of a lot of it with my daughter. I think that was just kind of like a mixture maybe of a coping mechanism combined with being so heavily medicated that I was like a little bit of a zombie so the little things like being able to take care of my newborn without having to rely on anyone else. Not that I won't have help, but once I was in the psychotic state, my family did not leave me alone with the baby, and that's something that still kind of weighs on me, like I wasn't able to be alone with my child for the first basically month of her life. So, yeah, I think I'm excited for the mundane, but hopefully mundane.
Yeah, hopefully.
For the boring parts, for sure.
Yeah, and it's so funny, 'cause I think a lot of people complain, and like rightfully so, 'cause it is hard, but a lot of people say that the newborn stage is really not their favorite, 'cause it's just so intense. I personally loved the newborn stage with my second and third. Like, it was so hard for me the first time. I think just because it is for everybody, it's such a huge shock. Even if you're not going through a mood disorder, there's something about knowing that it goes by so quickly the next time that makes you just be able to kind of savor it and just enjoy it for what it is. So I'm really excited for you to get that experience this time. Do you think that
you'll be sharing like the birth and your postpartum in real time on Instagram? are you gonna take a break? I know all kinds of people do it differently, but what are you thinking?
I think that I will try to, something that I didn't mention that I should have included 'cause it's very important is that sleep deprivation is a huge trigger for postpartum psychosis. And I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't tired, but I, in retrospect, it was like a huge red flag, I was on my phone. I mean, I don't even want to know what my screen time was during those weeks because I was on my phone around the clock, I wasn't sleeping. I like was oversharing on social media. Like it just wasn't a good time. So I think now I'm like, I will share, but I will probably try to be very mindful of-- - Sets and boundaries. Right, of how much I'm sharing, about how frequently I'm sharing.
I remember, even in my out of office message for my daughter, I put my cell phone, which is so funny. There are no emergencies in my field of work, but I put myself on number. You know, hey, if you need me, run on maternity leave, feel free to text me. And I was getting text messages like in the hospital from people.
Oh my God. So that to me is like wild. I'm like, I'm not doing that again. I'm cutting off access. I will be very selective about who I'm communicating with in the early days. So we'll see how it goes, but that's the plan.
Okay, nice, I like it. Yeah, you got to protect that peace and set those boundaries. That is so
funny. If people do want to kind of check in and see how you're doing and see all about the new baby, where can the listeners here connect with you and find you online?
The best place to find me is Instagram. My handle is my first, middle, and last name. It's kind of a mouthful, but if you start typing, it usually comes up. - Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes too. - Okay, perfect. It's ayana, gabrielle, a -y -a -n -a -g -a -b -r -i -e -l -l -e -l -a -g -e. But usually, like, once you get the first, like, six or seven characters.
Yeah, there's not a lot of AYANAs on Instagram, I guess, 'cause every time I try to type you and I find you really quickly.
Yeah, okay, well, I'd love to hear it.
Last question, what is something that no one told you before becoming a parent that you
wish you had known about it?
Oh, gosh, I feel like there could be so many answers to this.
I feel like even the hard stuff is still, there's beauty even in the really hard moments. Even when I look back on the psychosis, like obviously it was the worst time of my life, but I still have these little vignettes of me and my daughter, me and my husband and my daughter spending time together that are still so special to me.
So I mean, even like the really terrible parts of parenting, I've been able to kind of just find bright spots in, which I don't think that the people have to do. I mean, it's okay if it sucks, it sucks. Right.
But hindsight also helps though. Right. Yeah, when you look back. When you're in it, it's terrible. But looking back, I'm like, Oh, Like, there were sweet moments, even in this really terrible time.
Oh, I'm so glad that you have that. Well, thank you so much again for just such an
open and vulnerable conversation. I really appreciate it, and I know that other moms
out there or other people who are thinking about becoming moms someday will really
appreciate all that you have to share. So thanks again.
Yes, thank you for having
me.
