Gentle Parenting Like a Teacher
Episode 58: Gentle Parenting like a Teacher with Arielle Fodor aka @mrs.frazzled
In this episode, Rachael Shepard-Ohta interviews Arielle Fodor, also known as Mrs. Frazzled, about her experience as a teacher and a parent. They discuss why many teachers are leaving the profession, the misconceptions about gentle parenting, and the importance of representation and social justice issues. Ariel also shares her journey with mental health challenges and how she navigates them as a mom. The conversation highlights the interconnectedness of parents and the need for support and understanding.
Inside this episode:
Why so many teachers are leaving the profession
How teaching creates burnout and feelings of unfulfillment
What does “gentle parenting” mean, anyway?
How to set boundaries with children while maintaining open communication and using natural consequences
The importance of Representation and exposure to diverse experiences for children
How to raise socially conscious children.
The importance of prioritizing mental health and seeking support when needed as a parent
How to find supportive parenting communities
And so much more!
Mentioned in this episode:
Arielle’s Instagram: @mrs.frazzled
Arielle’s Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mrs.frazzled?lang=en
Teacher Quit Talk Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/teacher-quit-talk/id1644396447
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✨For sleep support and resources, visit heysleepybaby.com and follow @heysleepybaby on Instagram! 😴☁️🤎✨
Rachael is a mom of 3, founder of Hey, Sleepy Baby, and the host of this podcast.
Listen to the full episode
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Welcome to No One Told Us, the podcast that tells the truth about parenting and talks about all the stuff that you wish you knew before having kids. I'm your host, Rachael, and today I'm speaking with Ariel Fodor, but most people know her as Mrs. Frazzled. She was a theater and dance teacher for almost a decade before she got her teaching credential in 2018 and has four years of experience with teaching kindergarten in third grade, but she's currently on a teaching hiatus while she takes care of her two little ones and works from home full -time.
Ariel started making TikTok videos in 2020 as a way to connect with other teachers, and then when the pandemic shook up the world of education, things kind of took off from there. She co-hosts a podcast called Teacher Quit Talk, where they talk about why so many educators are leaving the profession and what might bring them back, and you probably know her from her gentle parenting parody videos which we will definitely talk about because they're so funny but also so relevant sadly.Ariel welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for being here.
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
I am such a fan. I love following you. I love your videos. I'm sure everybody listening will probably recognize either your voice or your face because you're so viral for so many amazing videos on TikTok and we will definitely get into that but I am also a former teacher as you know and lots of my followers and lots of the listeners are teachers or former teachers and so I'm always getting asked about how do you know when it's time to leave? why did you leave? why do your kids still go to public school?
Oh my gosh yes the questions are never ending.
So I'm excited to hear your perspective too. You're also another California girl. I feel like there's so much in common. So first I just kind of want to know like what originally made you leave education? Like did you just feel burnt out? Was it COVID? Was it your babies, all of the above?
It was really just my babies. I was gonna go out on maternity leave and then come back right before Thanksgiving break. And then I just was on the fence. I mean I had my first daughter and I was like I don't know…. we bought a house and our commute was about to be very long To go to school. So I was like I don't know if I even want to do that and then they had lost my paperwork.
I put in a request for my FMLA leave and HR called me and they were like hey your new principal Lost the paperwork and Rejected it and said like no you can't take it, but they were like she knows she's not allowed to do that so just put it in again and We'll we'll prove it and I was like okay. Yeah, so I was like actually I think I'm fine…. like I'm just gonna take a break. I took it like as a sign. I like left everything in the classroom. I had set up my room left everything and just never went back and
It's fine. Oh my gosh, I feel like there are so many reasons people leave these days,
but that would be enough to make me want to leave, too. What are some of the things that you see with parents who either were teachers or are teachers? I know that you talk to people leaving the profession all the time. What are some of the themes that you're saying? Why do you think so many teachers are leaving?
I think so many teachers are leaving because they're burnt out and that really looks different for everybody. Like being burnt out for different people can be totally different but it's all the same of like you're just not feeling great about going into work every day. I had people that literally are like fantasizing about getting sick because they're like well I won't have to go into work and I'm like that's not normal.
It feels very normal sometimes because everybody is saying it but it's not normal. You should not feel that way And I think just like things after COVID really took a turn in education.
When did you leave?
I was on maternity leave when COVID happened. Like I was five weeks postpartum when we went into lockdown with my middle. So I literally just never went back. Like I was on maternity leave. I had planned to be out. She was born in January. So I was going to most likely take the rest of that year off and then go back in the fall.
And I was actually starting Hey Sleepy Baby at the same time. So I kind of took COVID as like, okay, I really don't want to do distance learning at all. So I'm going to just put 110 % into this other thing and see what happens. And turns out it was the right choice. But yeah, I mean, I you couldn't have paid me enough to want to go back during that time.
No, it was crazy. And it was just like impossible. and our admin would say, you know, we're just building the plane as we're flying it. And I was like, yeah, that's how it feels. And it's very difficult.
Yeah, that's what we're getting here. And also there just seems to be this like undertone or maybe it's an overtone of just like disdain for teachers, which I find really, really disheartening a lot of the social media rhetoric about indoctrination and, you know, all this other crap where teachers feel like they can't do anything right, they can't say anything right, they can't teach, they can't use certain books that they want to use, it just feels like they can't catch a break and then they're making like zero money to be away from their kids for what, I believe.
Yeah, that was the thing too. It's like, I would have to take a pay cut to go back and it just isn't worth it right now with two little girls. I'm just like, you what I'm just they're only going to be little once but I can always go back to teaching in some capacity and I think I will…. I mean I'm in grad school right now for teaching. I think I'll end up back in it I'm just like home as you can
see their little heads are like bobbing in and out they're always here.
Oh same like mine are at school right now thank god but usually I'm interrupted at least once a day despite being in a completely different building from where they live we (laughing) We welcome bringing your children to work and to podcasting here ar no one told us.
Absolutely.
Another thing that I've noticed a lot of on social media, which I'm sure you get too, is this real negativity towards kids and parents and the gentle parenting movement. And a lot of people saying, I've been a teacher for 30 years and the kids now are terrible because of gentle parenting and I know you get a lot of flak for this too because you make those amazing hilarious gentle parenting videos. How did you get the idea to start that series and what are some of like the crazier things that you hear in your comment sections when you make those videos?
It was so funny because I started them during the pandemic when I was in lockdown teaching time and my girlfriends and I we would finish the teaching day and then we would have like a little virtual happy hour and debrief and chat and we were having some wine
and we were like oh my gosh wouldn't it be so funny if we talked to our boyfriends who are now our husbands it's been so long wouldn't it be so funny if we talked to our boyfriends like they were our kindergartners and then we started like going around and doing it and we just thought we were so funny and I had just started a TikTok and I was like wait I want to make a skit like I think this would be so fun.
So I started it with like making fun of my husband basically and then I very quickly it was like an election year so I started doing politicians and like the debate would have been so much better that year if they had mute signs…. so I was like because we had those in kindergarten like little okay friends like turn on your mute…. um it would have been so great. So I just kept making little jokes like that and I don't know how but I largely flew under the radar for a really long time. I didn't start getting like absolutely off the wall comments until this past holiday season.
I started like a holiday thing because I was inspired by people always saying don't talk about politics at the dinner table and I was like well we're to be around the dinner table. We're all going to be talking about things that we don't agree with necessarily. So like, okay, W is just screaming. Okay.
Um, I was like, we're going to be talking about these things. So wouldn't it be so funny if we did it like teacher voice ish? But then I always felt weird when teachers would quit the profession and then still make teacher content. So I was like, I had seen a meme about like gentle parenting people, and I was like, oh, that's so funny, yes, absolutely, let's pivot to that.
And that, the magic word gentle parenting, going from teacher voice to the word gentle parenting was like people had opinions. I mean, and it's not even, like gentle Parenting isn't what people think. People are thinking of permissive parenting. This is like authoritative parenting, which isn't like the same at all.
I honestly think, like you mentioned, people have this disdain for children and teachers and mothers, and I think that's where it comes from. I don't think it's as much like gentle parenting, quote unquote, as it is. People just don't enjoy people existing and children being one of those groups of people.
Yes and I think too like I made a video about it was like kind of directed at boomer parents and or boomer grandparents and about how this was like a year ago now because it was also a holiday time and it was one of the most viral videos I ever had go off on tiktok and the comments that I got from like gen X and boomers were absolutely unhinged. And I feel like you get a lot of those too because you're a lot of times talking to like, your uncle or your aunt or like boomer grandparent or something like that. And they really don't like being called out in that way.
So you mentioned to like the difference of authoritative and authoritarian, which is, I think, so important and permissive parenting, which is so important to understand. I feel like a lot of people really don't get the difference. And they think that gentle parenting is just soft parenting. You're being permissive. You're letting your kid run wild and do anything. You're raising this generation of like iPad kids who are getting anything they want and just wreaking havoc on public spaces.
So I guess that's why it's so controversial is because people really don't understand it. But what is authoritative or gentle parenting actually mean to you?
Authoritative parenting is really about like setting boundaries with kids but not in a way that is just like because I said so…. that would be authoritarian parenting which is like the old school quote unquote boomer way….. but of course there's always boomers that are like no I don't believe in that and it's it's okay I'm not attacking all boomers. I'm just saying that's like stereotypical but um yeah it's not like children should be seen and not heard you know that was like the way of authoritarian parenting.
Now it's like, authoritative parenting is you're setting boundaries, but you're not just setting them and forgetting them. You're bringing in the child to be like, "Here's why, here's what we can do." And the big focus is on natural consequences. So it might not be like just something arbitrary, like sending a child to their room they don't know why they don't understand how is that connected to what they just did they don't really get it.
So it's like if a child knocks a big tub of rice over it's saying okay if you knock it over you're gonna help me clean it up or you're gonna clean it up you know depending on the age of the child and it's that kind of thing and versus like permissive parenting would be they knock that over and you're like, it's okay, baby. I'll clean it up for you. No trouble at all. And it's like so it's very, I guess the differences are subtle sometimes, but I do think the like communication piece is key.
Yeah, like I used to say when I was teaching, it was like a firm but friendly, like this is the boundary, we're going to be firm on the boundary, but we can be kind about it. We don't have to berate you or shame you or yell at you. And sometimes actually what helps me with my own parenting is thinking about my kids the way I used to think about my students because I had, I don't know about you, but I had endless patience for my students.
I taught special ed and I had all the patience in the world and I was kicked, hit, beaten, like sweared at like you name it and it was done to me and I just took it so calm and with my own kids it takes literally nothing to trigger me and I find that so interesting but like when I'm about to react sometimes I'll go back to like teacher Rachael and be like what would she have done because she would not have like screamed at somebody else's kids…. so why would I scream at my own kids and I definitely do sometimes like I'm human but yeah but I try that helps me I don't know if you have anything that you take from teaching that helps you in your own parenting.
I absolutely do there's a couple things I people ask me, do you talk to your kids like that? No, I really do not talk to my child like I do in those skits, but you know when I do, is when I'm really, really mad and I need to regulate myself, I will literally snap into like-- - And you talk in that like sing song, yeah. - Uh -huh, or like something I even did when I was a teacher is if I got really triggered by something really fast, I would like sing it like if somebody would like kick over something…. I'd be like okay here we go and that was like how I like soothed myself and also kept it cute with the kids because like you said I would never like lose it on another person's child, so I 100 % when I'm super triggered will like reel back in just like you said back to teacher frazz- I'm like okay we're back in the room.
It's like my customer service voice.
Yep. I love it. Um, you also share a lot of social justice stuff, which I know has been getting you in some hot water recently. We're going to talk about that after a quick break. We'll be right back.
Okay, so we're back with Frazz. I love that you share like the skits on Gentle Parenting and you make it kind of funny and cute. And I just love it. I think it's hilarious. But you also use your platform for some real good. And you do a lot of skits and things on social justice issues and on politics.
I find it hilarious too when people say like, I really wish you would just go back to what you did before. It's like, babe, I've been doing politics the entire time, you must be new here. But what kind of gave you the courage to start speaking about those things? It's, I mean, especially on TikTok where it's like actually crazy and actually scary to talk about things like that sometimes, especially as a woman.
I honestly don't think it was something that gave me the courage rather than like, I have an inability to keep my mouth shut. Like I just see things and I get so frustrated, I get so mad, and I'm just like, people need to understand this. Before I had this platform, I was doing it like my private story. So like people were still seeing me just, yap, just in a different form, but yeah, I just feel that I have this inability to be quiet.
And I also feel like I have this responsibility to speak on things that are unjust in my opinion.
How do you kind of care for your mental health when things do go off the rails and the comments are just kind of crazy and you’re getting threats. How do you keep it all together and not just want to burn it all down?
Honestly, I think having the outlet offline is really helpful. I have a lot of friends who I have made who are creator friends, and we really talk about it a lot. A lot of people that are also in politics that go through stuff like this, and then also just being able to talk to my real life family and friends and have them center me. And there are moments when I'm like, am I being, am I wrong? And they'll be like, well, you could have phrased it this way. You could have included this nuance, X, Y, and Z. And I think that's totally valid, but I think that having that grounds me to the point when it's people that I don't typically respect. I wouldn't take the advice of some of the people who criticize me so I don't take their criticism.
Like I don't own it and I think that that has really helped me, but also trying to whenever possible doing as much listening as I can before I open my mouth has helped me because I think one thing that people are really afraid of when they get started talking about any type of social justice issue is like am I gonna say the wrong thing and Unfortunately, yes, you are like that's the harsh reality of it. But I think one way that you can mitigate that is by listening and gathering as much information that you can, especially from the groups that you're about to speak about, like I'm a white woman.
So I think, you know, I, depending on what I'm talking about, listening to people in the group that I'm advocating for is the first step. And then I can go into a process of like, okay, how do I translate this to my audience? So it's like a long process, but it's kept me from wanting to quit, I guess.
Yeah, which is a big deal. So how do you talk to, I mean, I know your kids are still little and you might not be thinking about this yet, but knowing you, I bet that you are, how do you talk to your kids about these same types of issues and what should other parents be aware of if we want to raise children that are, you know, socially conscious and, and going to advocate for others and be an ally for others?
Yeah, I think the biggest thing right now, because my girls are just six months and two, is representation, like in the types of books that I read to them, the types of media that they're watching, just making sure that they are getting out in the world as well, like into spaces where people that don't look like them are. And my kids are, they're going to be women of color, they're both half Indian. So they don't look, you know, like you can tell that they're not white, so that's also gonna affect how they navigate the world because honestly like white kids learn about racism, but kids that are not white experience it and they don't get the privilege of learning about it, they just, it just is.
So a big part of what I do is educate myself as much as possible because I know that like how just like how when we're Raising kids in general, the hardest thing is emotionally regulating yourself before you do it to a child. Very similar with social justice. I think it's like you want to be as informed as possible because when you're learning who your child is becoming and Helping them navigate the world in their own body and you just want to make sure that you have the tools as much as possible that you can. 'Cause I think life throws us curveballs you just never really know.
For other parents I would just say like really try to bring in that representation of people that look differently. Dr. Rudin Sims Bishop talks about windows, doors and mirrors and it's the idea of books specifically but it could be anything where there's windows into other people's experience, there's mirrors back at yourself, and then there's, oh no, and then there's doors where you can step through and experience other people's things. And that has really helped me to like guide what kind of things I show to my kids because then I can make sure they're getting a little bit of it all, you know?
Yeah, I've never heard that before, I love that. We're gonna take one more quick break and then when we come back I would also love to just talk a little bit more about mental health because I know that you are a really big mental health advocate and you share about your own mental health struggles so we're going to take a quick break and be right back with that.
We are back with Ariel Fodor of Mrs. Frazzled and I just love how candid you are about pretty much everything but one thing that I really appreciate you discussing on your platforms is mental health especially as a mom kind of talk us through how you first became kind of aware of your mental health challenges and how that's manifested since you've become a mom.
I think I was always aware of like my OCD in particular. I just didn't know what the name for it was, you know, from when I was very, very little. Like, looking back, very, very clear patterns that I had OCD that I have now, but I just didn't know what it was. And it wasn't really, girls weren't super, super diagnosed with, oh my gosh, with stuff back then. So, yeah, I think once I hit adulthood and I started learning more and more about myself, I remember the first time I was diagnosed with OCD, I was like 24, and I said, "No, I don't have that." I was like, "That's not, I'm not washing my hands or counting at all."
And they were like, "Okay, honey." And then a couple years later, I was like, "Oh yeah, wait a second, I think you're so right and that was also the time when I got diagnosed with ADHD and that also made so much sense and I think I just didn't know…. I mean it's like I was I always knew I had something going on but I didn't know what you know?
Yeah and so when about when you had your first baby did you notice that it was exacerbated Or do you already have kind of like a treatment plan in place to help you? How did that all go down?
I mean when I was pregnant I had Multiple doctors on deck who were anticipating that my OCD would explode or I would have really bad depression. I had postpartum anxiety and I was like what the heck I was not expecting that at all…. so when I had the big one. I had postpartum anxiety and I was not expecting that at all. We were expecting like OCD, depression, like all these other things. I was just so surprised because I had my medication that I was taking and I was on it. I was so much better off than I would have been if I went off.
I did this really crazy thing that I think a lot of people do where I was maybe 10 weeks pregnant and I decided that my meds had healed me and I was actually better and I didn't need those anymore and I went off of them and my doctor was and then I experienced some horrible symptoms and my doctor was like why the heck did you do that? And I was like I don't know…. they put me back on them and it was the best thing ever…. and that's kind of how I like saved myself was actually listening to medical advice. Imagine that.
Something that more people should really do, consider, listening to medical advice.
It makes all the difference really. I'm so glad. And then what about with baby number two? Because that's been a little bit more recent. She's about six months.
You know. I was so much more chill with her I was probably kind of bad in the anxiety right region or like depression vibes probably six weeks and then I kind of came out of it and I was so shocked like I thought that it was going to be more of the same I thought it could be worse but it really wasn't um I think I just kind of knew how to take care of myself better I knew what to look out for. I knew how to advocate for myself and be like, "No, I need this."
Last time I didn't ask for this and I didn't get help and whatever, so it was good. And I think the biggest thing was like when I went to my appointments too, I was very honest and candid with how I was feeling. And I made sure that I made them talk to me about mental health so I felt very supportive, supported and I think that was helpful.
Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that because I think a lot of people are kind of like embarrassed or ashamed or just don't want to talk to their doctor about it or their doctor doesn't even ask which is even worse and that is so, so key. People ask me all the time too. I'm sure you get this question a lot now that you've got two. What are some other things that were different for your experience from your to postpartum to now having two kids.
That is such a, it's such a tough question because they are just so different themselves. You know, like they're just totally different little people. So getting to know W has been so much different because J was a very like serious and stoic and like still and calm. W is like crazy pants and has almost been since day one, like, very, like, mischievous and I'm like, "You're so funny. You're such a little stink." So that was different. Their sleep was different. I mean, I'm on a sleep podcast.
They W had acid reflux, crazy acid reflux. So she wouldn't let me put her down. I literally slept with her in my arm on an incline for like a long time. Like I couldn't get her to lay down. I know. And J had just gotten to the point where she was like sleeping in her bed and like kind of chilling and it was just,
Oh my gosh. Then you just start all over again. Of course, so why not?
Why not? What is one thing, this is my last question, I try to remember to ask all the moms that come on or all the parents I should say, what's one thing that you wish you knew before having kids that no one told you or that you feel like people just don't talk about enough, something that you were not ready for?
I don't think I was truly prepared for the way that after I had my first baby, I looked at the world so differently in terms of like, I would see a woman out at Target with her baby and be like, "She's a mom too." Like, "She's going through this too." And then just like this, don't worry, oh, I'm not sad, baby. I would just have this cosmic connection to like all of these people around me in a way that I could have never experienced.
I was so ready to like have my world rocked by like the emotions of having a baby and like looking at her and knowing that like oh my god you're my baby and I love you so much but the interconnectedness of other people I was not prepared for and I think a lot of people say like just wait just wait it's so stressful your life is never the same it's so challenging and all of that I guess is It's true, but you also have this world around you that understands what you've gone through and what you're going through. And it really is a lot of people that are rooting for you.
People don't see, like other moms don't see other kids having meltdowns at Target and think like, oh my gosh, what the heck, like the vast majority of people are like, been there girl and they would help you, and they would see what you're going through and know that you're trying so hard. I think especially when we engage in social media, a lot of people seem toxic 'cause they're loud, but the majority of people are not.
The majority of people wanna see you win because they've been there and they know what you're going through. And I really wish that that had been emphasized more to me before I had a baby because I think I was so nervous about that element, but it's like a really beautiful connection that you share with people around you.
I love that. Yeah, and I think you're right. Like the social media piece can make it feel like the parenting world is very divisive, right? Like there's divisive ways that you can parent. Like some people really want formula feed, some people really want breastfeed. And for some reason, those two people are, those two groups are pitted against each other, like sleep or daycare or whatever, like there's a million things that make us feel like we're out there fighting a war.
But really, right, I think most moms just want to see other moms and other kids that are happy and healthy and doing well. So yeah, I really, I love that perspective and I love that advice. It's been so fun to talk to you in person. I love following you and I love chatting with you on Instagram. Tell us all your channels so that people can find you and then your podcast as well.
You can find me on anything as mrs.frazzled or you can find my podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. It is teacher quit talk.
Perfect. I'll link all that in the show notes too for people to find, especially for people who are teachers and especially for moms who are teachers. Definitely check out Ariel at mrs .frazzled and check out her podcast.
Thank you so much, and thank you to our adorable little additional guests for being here.
Oh, gosh. Never a dull moment.
I love it. No, I mean, moms who work from home are like freaking superheroes, like we are just doing all of this, and it is what it is. They're so cute. Thanks for joining, Ariel. It was so fun to talk to you.
Have a good rest of your day. Until next time. Bye.
