We Have Good Reason to be Angry
Episode 6: We Have Good Reason to be Angry with Yara Heary of @lifeafterbirthpsychology
Did you feel totally unprepared for how ANGRY you'd sometimes feel after having a baby? Maybe you did all the baby prep classes or prepared yourself for labor as much as you could or read all the “how-to” books on parenting and have a great partner. But once you got home, you realized nobody prepared you for just how much everything in your life was going to change. Perhaps you are struggling with your identity shifting or your relationship has totally changed, or you're being triggered by things that didn't bother you before. Maybe you take it out on your partner- or your kids. Maybe you even feel some shame or embarrassment about these things. In this episode Rachael and Yara discuss the biggest points of contention in relationships after having a baby and why it is totally understandable for us to feel angry.
Join Rachael and Yara to talk about:
what couples struggle most with after having a baby
how a mothers identity tends to shift post baby
how defining expectations with your partner can help to prevent resentment
changing our beliefs & expectations on what it actually will look like when becoming parents
ways to experience mothering with more ease
why moms might feel angry and resentful postpartum
anger with our children and what to do when we're triggered
how to assume the best of our children and others in our lives
how to support your nervous system BEFORE you feel anger
self-compassion for mothers and connecting with our inner child
Yara is a Perth psychologist who works exclusively with women throughout conception, pregnancy, and motherhood. Yara started Life After Birth Psychology following the birth of her first son which started her on yet another journey of self-rediscovery. Her experiences throughout early motherhood drew her to support other women as they navigate their own family of origin dynamics, the social programming of the “good mother”, relationship changes with those around them, identity shifts, and role changes to find their place of balance and authenticity as mothers. She is also the host of Life After Birth with Yara, a podcast dedicated to sharing the stories of women as they navigate life as mothers. Follow Yara on Instagram.
Rachael is a mom of 3, founder of Hey, Sleepy Baby, and the host of this podcast.
Listen to the full episode
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Rachael: Welcome to No one Told Us. Today we have Yara, who is a Perth Australia psychologist who works exclusively with women and moms through conception, pregnancy, and motherhood. And Yara started life After Birth Psychology, which is a fabulous resource on Instagram. You started that right after the birth of your first child?
Yara: Yeah, that's right. So nearly eight years ago. Yeah.
Rachael: Eight years ago. And how old is your younger child?
Yara: She's actually turning five next week at the end of the week. So yeah, it's been a ride.
Rachael: Wow. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And then you also have a fabulous podcast for anybody out there looking for additional podcasts to listen to. You have a great one. It's called Life After Birth with Yara, and it's a podcast really dedicated to sharing the stories of women as they navigate their life as mothers.
Yara: Yeah, absolutely.
Rachael: So Yara, how did you get started with this space of wanting to work with women and mothers?
Yara: Yeah, that's a great question. Well, I mean, I've been working as a psychologist for quite some time, but prior to having children, I was working in the government sector here in Western Australia, so that meant I was working in inpatient hospitals. I also worked in drug and alcohol settings, and I really enjoyed that. I had also done some private practice at that time as well, and then I had my first son and everything changed and I went through this. And I went through that kind of identity shift that everybody experiences, and I would argue that I'm still experiencing that and my sense of self is still evolving. But certainly back then in those early days, one of the things that I really started to wonder about was do I actually want to be a psychologist anymore? Because the thought of going back to what I had done before, just really it didn't take me. I did not buy into that anymore. And it's not that the work itself was something I didn't enjoy, but the thought of seeing clients who were kind of really across the spectrum of life, it didn't grab me anymore. And so I started to wonder about what am I going to do? And I went through this phase where I was thinking I'll start like an online baby clothes store. For some reason. I was like, and then at the same time as all of this, I think one of the biggest struggles that I had early on after having my first son was actually in my relationship. I really struggled with maintaining that, and I had a really solid relationship going into becoming a mother. And I sort of just assumed that that would continue because we were really stable leading up to that, and that really isn't what I found to be the case. And so I started looking around for resources for how to support us, not just in terms of couples therapy, but what else existed out there in the world that could have prepared us for what we were not prepared for. And that's sort of where I found the work of the Gottman's in terms of they've got a beautiful program called Bringing Baby Home. And I really wanted to study that so that I could become an educator for that, because I was like, oh my God, if people had told me this and if people had told me that I could have been at least prepared. And so we then got an opportunity in Canberra here in Australia where there was training available because up until then it just wasn't available in Australia. So I went over there and did that. And it was from doing that, I think it was maybe three day training that I just went, oh, this is what I want to do. I want to help couples, I want to help mothers. And I think from there on just my experiences in mothers groups and things like that, and in the process of building my own kind of community and my own village of sorts, just hearing the stories of other mothers in my community as well really cemented that fact of this is actually the work that I want to do. I'm really passionate about this. And at the same time, it's an interesting thing to be working in a space that you are still navigating at the same time because in one way it really gives you a connection, a really deep connection to what people are going through at the same time because you've either just been there, maybe you are struggling with some elements of that yourself, but at the same time, it's really wonderful for me at this point in my life, I'm supporting women who are just a couple of steps behind me or maybe quite a bit behind me if they're first time moms. And it's been a real process of learning that being just a few steps ahead of someone is sometimes all you need to really provide that support that allows them to feel seen and heard and a sense of relief for them to be able to feel a sense of relief that someone can just say, it's okay, things are going to get better. I've been there too. That can be all it needs. So yeah, that's kind of where it started.
Rachael: Amazing. Well, I was planning on asking you about relationship stuff anyway, so since you already brought that up, maybe we can start there because I think what you just said is so relatable, and I certainly experienced something very similar. I mean, I've had three postpartum experiences now, and each one has been a little bit different on my relationship in different ways. But there were definitely a couple of periods where we were like, oh, we're not okay. This is really bad. And it's kind of scary when you get to that point. And it's also, I think it's kind of taboo to talk about. A lot of people don't want to admit that their relationship is really struggling after a baby because they're worried about what does this say about our relationship or what are people going to think? Or you're always trying to keep up those appearances. So what do you find with clients or in the work that you do with people online or wherever it is, what do you find are the biggest points of contention after a baby? Where are people struggling the most?
Yara: Yeah. I think that where people struggle the most is that, and this is why the bringing baby home stuff really resonated with me, is that there's a real lack of preparation, I think within couples for what is going to happen and what's going to change, and also a lack of an understanding. And it's not the fault of couples, it's just that there aren't that many resources around that actually support them being well-informed for what's about to change. But even things like talking in advance of your baby coming in terms of what are the responsibilities of each person? How are you going to manage nighttime wakings? Who's going to be the one that's at home? How much time are people taking off work? If mothers are wanting to go back to work, how is that going to be supported? Who's going to be around to provide support for mothers when they are home with the baby in those first couple of months when it is a really intense time? And when mothers really do need to be held and supported themselves when they need to be mothered? I think there's so much preparation that goes into pregnancy and labor and birth prep and all of that sort of stuff. And I think that the conversation around what will happen next just really doesn't happen. And it's really interesting at the moment. There's a big inquiry that's happening in New South Wales here in Australia into birth trauma, and it's huge, right? Really big. And we just had the head of the medical body here giving evidence, and they were talking about that they have not been possibly as transparent as they needed to be in terms of risk in labor because they worry about frightening women, which is really ridiculous. But I think that in the same way when we're looking at talking to people who are moving into parenthood for the first time, there is some fear I think that exists around preparing people and letting them know about what's going to happen because there's fear that well, are they going to be afraid? And I think that it's a really interesting one. I think about it in terms of education across the lifespan. If that's the way that we treat people, it might scare them. If they know this truth, then people would never be able to be prepared in life for anything. So I think it is really important to prepare couples who are going into parenthood for the first time, and in fact subsequent times in a way that is compassionate, that is collaborative as well for them. And in a way that is measured. Obviously we want to be talking about the good and the bad, but we want to be really giving people resources for where they can go when they are struggling. And I think that my experience was like, I got to this point, our world had been turned upside down, and I was like, why did no one tell me? And where do I even go to get this support? And I'm a psychologist, so to think that I had to go to so much effort to find that support is really hard. And then of course, there's that element as well that you're talking about, which is that shame that you have that something changed. And I think that also comes back to the ideals that we have going into parenthood, which is that nothing will change, that will be unchanged, that will remain the same. This whole idea of nothing changing. And the reality is, is that there are two new people, well, three new people who've been born. There's your baby, there's the mother, and there's your partner, the father. And I think that having a baby changes everybody, and it changes. Many women that I speak to talk about the changing value system that they have.
(09:54):
They talk about their shifting identity. All of these things have changed. So of course there's some things that we can't prepare for, but having open communication from the get-go is just so important. And having a relationship where it feels safe to have open communication, to let each other know when things are not going well, it's just such an important thing. So I do think that in line with the communication thing, I think having a clear understanding of what we're expecting each other's roles to be is a really important thing. And I think that that's lacking a lot of the time in relationships when they come to see me. And as a result of that, what tends to happen is that women by default end up taking on a lot of the load, and then there starts to build overwhelm and there starts to build resentment and things like that. And it's a difficult one because I think there's so much conditioning for women as well to actually do that, to the taking on of things. And I actually heard, oh, I can't remember who it was that I was watching a reel from someone on social media and they were talking about maternity leave. And of course that's different in different countries, but here in Australia, it's not necessarily that everybody gets maternity leave in terms of their women do, but not necessarily partners. But one of the things she was talking about is how maternity leave focused only around mothers sets us up for this real imbalance in our relationship because women learn how to do the caregiving because mothering is a skill and fathers maybe are not learning that. And so there's this automatic imbalance that happens right off the get go when we go into parenting because of maternity leave. So that's challenging. And I think that one of the things that needs to be done there is that there needs to be a lot more focus around supporting men to actually be more present, especially in that early parenthood phase.
Rachael: Yeah, I think what you were just saying about how there's this inequity and maternity and paternity leaves just really reinforce that. And here in the states we definitely see that because we get literally nothing guaranteed to us for maternity and paternity leaves. And then you have partners or dads who maybe even get it offered, but don't take it. So there's just so much dumped on the mom, and that can cause so much resentment. And then there's also the biological factor where if you're nursing or pumping, there's some things that are just naturally going to be unequal. And for me, I remember feeling so resentful of my husband, even though he was so hands-on and so willing to help and do everything with me and be a team, I was still resentful of the fact that I was the only one that could feed that baby. I was the only one who could soothe the baby. The baby needed me to fall asleep. And so it just felt like he had so much more freedom, and that was a really tough pill to swallow.
Yara: Yeah, totally. I mean, I feel like resentment is a thing that is an ongoing experience for me, and there's different sort of phases throughout my year of when I feel more resentful and not, I think that something that is coming to me as you're speaking about this thing where your husband was really hands-on and you can really recognize that he was, but you still felt that way because there was so much need for you from this baby. And I wonder as well around that what our expectations are going into motherhood. And I think that the way that I perceived being a mother and having a good baby was that my baby would sleep and my baby would play independently and my baby all this kind of rubbish. And so I think that also one of the really challenging things about becoming a mother is coming up against all of this kind of conditioned belief or expectations around what it actually will look like to be a mother as well. And the idea that I also feel like I talked before about that staying the same thing or the bounce back culture. And I think that that exists not just around our bodies as women, but across everything, bounce back into career, bounce back into relationship, bounce back into our social group. It exists across so many different areas for us. And I think the reality is is that those things change forever. How we engage in those spaces, how we move throughout, that changes forever. And I think that that's one of those things for me that I really held a lot of resentment around, and I had to learn how to let go of some of the things that I thought would stay the same, that just absolutely were not staying the same. And that's where we hear a lot of people talk about the concept of surrender in motherhood. And through that process of matrescence, which is really about where we can and where we are holding so tightly onto that rope because we are trying to maintain control or trying to maintain life looking like what it did in our maiden hood, that sometimes when we let go, it's not about not caring or anything like that, but it's about recognizing where that tension just doesn't need to be held anymore. And that if we surrender or release into the newness of what it is that we can actually experience mothering with more ease. And also I think I like that because it gives me freedom to create who I am at this particular moment in time. It gives me freedom to explore who I might be. But I do think that at the same time, coming back to the idea of maternity leave or lack of paternity leave creating an imbalance. This is where I think communication is so important. And one of the things that in my relationship at the moment, I only just yesterday mentioned it to my husband was we need to have weekly check-ins. Again, we haven't been doing that and we haven't done this for a really long time, but we used to get a babysitter and go to his office at his work and just spend a night with takeout with our computers out and organize the next four months. That's what we used to do. And when we did that
Rachael: That is so brilliant.
Yara: When we did that, life was amazing. Everyone knew when they were getting time for workout, we knew he was doing drop-offs. He knew when I had stuff going on in my work or in my life that I needed more support around. I knew for him. And we just haven't done that. And so life has felt really chaotic over the last couple of months. It's been like, oh, okay, crap, you are doing this on this day. Oh no, what am I going to do now? Who have I got for care? It's just been really chaotic. So I think open communication where we can say, this is what's coming up, or let's reflect on how this last week or last month went. And I think, and it's of course making me think about fair play. It's such a big component of that whole concept of fair play, of doing the check-ins, of making sure people have a minimum standard and all that sort of thing. And if people out there have not heard of fair play, which I'd be amazed if they hadn't, it's such a fantastic resource in terms of learning some of the basics around how to have better communication around roles and things like that.
Yara: Yeah, definitely.
Rachael: It's so good. I read it a couple of years ago when it was newer or a few years ago now, and we did the exercise, my husband and I, where you have to write out everything that's on your mental load. And I went first and I wrote, I filled pages, just wrote everything that I think about every single day and that I have to be in charge of. And he took one look at my list and he was like, I don't want to write mine. He just knew.
Yara: Right? Yeah.
Rachael: He just knew that it was going to look pathetic next to mine, and that was actually kind of a big wake up call. So now we do those check-ins like you were mentioning. We have gotten really lax about it this summer too. We have not done it in weeks, but when we were doing them, we called them our weekly admin meeting. And they're so, so helpful. And I know a lot of people, I posted about it on TikTok one time and people were like, oh, that's really romantic, or, oh, you're corporate-afying your marriage. That's not very sexy or whatever. And I'm like, you know what? Sometimes you just need someone to be on the same page with you and to not want to murder them, they need to take on some of the load. And that meeting was how we made that happen. So I beg to differ, but
Yara: Totally.
Rachael: You also just mentioned something that I would love for you.
Yara: I agree. And actually one of the things that a relationship therapist that we were seeing at one point said to me was, you need to think about your family and your relationship like a business. So who's got, what role have you got? What role have you got? You're both managers. If there's things that are happening that need to happen that can be outsourced, for example, so that you can focus on the most important thing for you and your family, then outsource that. I remember her talking about it in that way, and that was so helpful for my husband. He was just like, he understood.
Rachael: Oh, I bet.
Yara: He just totally got it. And I really think that if you take up a little bit of time in that relationship, working in this way that is really structured, it creates so much more space and freedom for the spontaneity, for the sexy stuff, for the loving feelings toward one another because your brain is not filled with the thoughts about who's doing this, who's doing that, or I'm feeling annoyed he hasn't said this. And I think that…
Rachael: It clears it all out of the way.
Yara: Totally. And I think we often get in this place as well of believing or feeling like they should just know what to do. And I do totally support that. In some ways, there's some really obvious stuff in relationships that I think that some partners can do better at. But I also do think that it is so important to express our needs and to express our desires in a clear, not that it's not emotional, but without all of that heavy emotional stuff. So you don't want to be doing that in the middle of a heated situation or when we're upset and this is what those check-ins allow you to do, it lets you to talk about it. It's a business meeting and everybody gets an opportunity to speak. So yeah, I think it's great.
Rachael: I love it. And yeah, it does help take some of that resentment away because then it's like, okay, you've offloaded your needs, you've checked in, you've divvied up all of the things that you need to do, and so then you kind of have this ability to step back without so much resentment because now everybody's aware of everything that needs to happen. You've divvied it up in a way that feels fair. I would love for you to talk a little bit more about, maybe not resentment per se, but anger, because I know that is something that you talk about so much on your Instagram page and maybe your partner not stepping up is one reason that you're angry. But why are moms so angry so much of the time? Is it, I know I'm not the only one. I try to keep my cool, but I get really angry sometimes. And there's all this talk on social media about postpartum rage, and it's definitely seeming like it's becoming more of a thing that people are to talk about. And so I would love for you to just talk a little bit about that and share why you think moms today are so angry.
Yara: I think that we are so angry because we have a lot of reason to be angry. And I think that the other thing is that I remember when I first started to learn about talk about it, even in my studies when I was still studying, and it was very much framed as this pathological kind of thing, that it was a symptom of postpartum depression, which absolutely, it can go hand in hand, but it doesn't mean that it's pathological in its own way. And I think that even that is such a disservice to women. It's like you're not allowed to just be angry. It has to mean that something is wrong with you. And this feeds back into those patriarchal ideals around what it means to be a good woman and what it means to be a good mother or a good girl. And so one of the things that I really love to tell mothers is that you are angry for really good reasons. And when we are angry, it's because there's been some kind of violation, because there's some kind of injustice, because something feels unfair. And when I say that to mothers, they think about their situation. They're like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's really rare that mothers are angry because of content or situations around their parent-child relationships. It's never about that. Most of the time, it's mostly about all of the other shit that they have to deal with in life. It's about the inequity that they experience when they become mothers. That's essentially, to me, when I think about the anger that most mothers are coming to talk to me about and the anger that I have, it's fueled by all of that. It's the inequity. It's the frustration because it feels like you go two steps forward and one step back in certain areas of your life as a mother, because there are now boundaries everywhere, and there are barriers everywhere to what you would like to be doing in your life. It's just so much harder. So I was having this conversation with a friend actually just yesterday, and he is solo with his two kids at the moment. And I was like, where's your partner gone? Where is she? What is she doing? Is she having a holiday or whatever? And he said, oh, no, she's working in London. And I was just like, aha. And he sort of was like, oh, working. She's whining and dining this. And I was like, I don't know anything about that because that's normally my situation. And I could see the look on his face. He was just like, yeah, she's over there working. And I was like, I know exactly what that feels like, and I know exactly what it feels like to be going on and on and on. That compounding of that feeling, it was interesting to see that experience emotionally for him. That is something that often it's mothers that are experiencing where they're going. I don't have access to those things. And I think that especially around patriarchy and feminism and things like that. I was thinking about myself as a feminist the other day, and I was thinking, when did that happen? And I was like, I think I've always had ideals that aligned with feminism, but I don't think I ever identified myself as a feminist until I became a mother. And the reason for that is because the barriers to my life became so much louder and so much more prominent when I became a mother. And so I feel like motherhood radicalized me in that way. And my husband mentions that all the time. He's like, you have a lot more anger than you ever had before. And he talks about, I don't let him off the hook about things and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, I don't have space for that anymore. I don't have time for that anymore. I'm busy. So, and I remember even one of my supervisors saying that to me at one point too, about women becoming more resentful or experiencing that maybe to a greater degree, and certainly anger to a greater degree, because I think for many women, it's at this point in our lives that the full force of the patriarchy becomes so obvious for us. And I think as well as that, the other element that comes with it is also as a woman, how many times have you suppressed who you are and how you've shown up in the world throughout your life? And so I also think that something that potentially could be fueling the anger that we feel at this time is maybe it's the first time for many people that they're allowing anger to be present for them, but then there's also all the anger that they haven't expressed throughout their whole lives that is adding fuel to that fire as well. And so I think that there's, then there's also in terms of, well, this could relate back to family of origin stuff as well, around were you allowed to express anger? So there's so many different levels of it, but I think at the end of the day, the key message that I want moms to know about this is that your anger is valid and your anger is saying something. It's saying, take a look at your needs. Are they being met? Do you even know what your needs are? Take some time to really think about that and explore that. Have an opportunity where you sit down with your partner or whoever your support people are and say, these are my needs and this is the impact it's having because they're not being met, and this is some of the ways that they can be met, even if it's just about carving out some time for yourself at least once a week where you get undivided time to yourself. I think that the biggest kind of disservice we can do to ourselves is try to suppress that anger and try to pretend like it doesn't exist. The best thing we can do with anger is notice that it's there, sit with it, feel it, notice where it's showing up in our body, and then ask the question of why is it here? What is the need that is going unmet? What is the injustice? That's what we need to do with our angle, need to use it.
Rachael: And I think the hard thing, at least for me is when that anger doesn't have anywhere to go, it often comes out at our kids, right? Because they are so good at pushing our buttons and hitting our triggers, and then we're lashing out at them and feeling so guilty and terrible. And so how do we navigate that? How do we identify our triggers with our kids and maybe take a step back and stop our anger from unleashing on them when it's not fair?
Yara (27:13):
Yeah, totally. And I think the first step there is actually noticing that that is what's going on. And I really notice that. So as soon as I start to get frustrated or resentful in my relationship, the first thing I notice is I just get really short with my kids. I just don't have the capacity anymore. And the reason we don't have that capacity is because our nervous system is at max, it's at capacity itself. And so one of the things that I like to talk to people about is how do we get the nervous system to work with us in times of challenge in our parenting? And so if we are noticing that we are getting more sharp with our children or with our partners and things like that, the first thing is checking in with that anger and doing what I mentioned before, which is around checking in with what are the needs? Why is this anger here? So really trying to get to the root of that. And the next thing is creating opportunities to actually allow the nervous system to get back into balance and to sort of unload. So I like to think about when we've hit that window of tolerance or when we've got too much going on in our nervous system as we've got a backpack on and every day it's loading up with frustrations with our kids or frustrations at work or in our household or with our partners or whatever. And if we don't have a process and a way to unload that backpack, then it gets to the point where we can't actually put any more in. And that's when it starts, just everything starts coming out and exploding. And so I really love to talk to people about, well, what are you doing on a daily basis that's out of the moment of your anger that can allow you to actually provide some kind of reset or some kind of balance? So for me, I really like breath work. Exercise is a really big thing for me. It's really about people thinking about what allows them to feel that way. Maybe it's just being able to have a walk by yourself. Maybe it's other sort of movement like yoga. Maybe it's having a check-in with a friend once a week or a couple of times a week. What is it that allows you to feel good in your nervous system? I really love breathwork because I think that the main reason is because changing the way that we breathe has a direct impact on our nervous system. We know that. And so if we get good at doing that out of the moment, it means that we can utilize that skill in the moment. And I do often hear people talk about breathing doesn't work for me in the moment. And I think the reason why is because people don't have the practice. They don't, and they're too fired up. They're too activated in the moment for that to work because they don't have an existing practice. And so practicing breathwork out of the moment on a regular basis means we are much more likely to use it and for it to be effective in the moment. But the other thing is also for people, is getting a sense of what are the signs that you are heading toward, starting to fire up at your children? That's the other really big thing. So for me, I really recognize it as a heat in my body. I really feel a hot feeling. My heart starts to race and I start to feel panicky. I start to feel really panicky, and it makes sense because my fight or flight, that's me going, I want to get out of here, I want out of this situation. So I start noticing that. So if we can notice what those signs are, it also means we can do something before the eruption happens and we can be more intentional. So for me, it might be when I notice that I put the television on because my kids just are like zombies to the tv, so they just start watching it, that they stop fighting or whatever it is that's going on. And I get an opportunity to take five or 10 outside with a cup of tea, just scroll on my phone, whatever it is to just calm myself down to breathe, and then I can come back to that situation and deal with it better because I've had a pause. So always being able to pause, basically when we are noticing that some of those signs and symptoms in our body are showing up, that mean that there might be an eruption coming is really big. And then of course, what it is that we do in that time. So it might be going outside and grounding yourself in the earth, it might be taking some breath. And a very simple one is box breathing. So it's like four breaths in, four breaths holding four breaths out, and then continue. It might be having a cry. So that's the other thing for me. Sometimes when I feel really agitated, I can tell that it's actually grief. It's some kind of sadness, and I feel teary on the edge of all of the rage. That's what I notice. And so for me, that also means noticing that and saying, I need time to sit and cry. And then I do that when my kids go to school, I put on some music, I light a candle, and I make time to actually just have a cry. And sometimes I make time to rage to just scream and all of the rest of it, I feel like I just need to get that out. So I think tuning into our bodies is a really huge part of being able to regulate ourselves in the moment so we don't blow up, but also so that we are doing the practices on a regular basis that allow us to expand the capacity of our nervous system.
Rachael: I think people really underestimate the power of moving emotion through your body and how just like what you said, crying or physically raging or dancing it out or breathing or walking, that can all be so effective and powerful. And I love that you talked about the pause. That's something that I've been really, really trying to do lately. It's so effective when you can practice it over time. So it's not something that has happened for me overnight, but I've been really practicing it with one of my kids who is just in a period right now where there's lots of melting down and things like that. And I was noticing that I was so incredibly triggered by the crying, even if they had good reason to cry, even if it was something simple, they bunked their knee or they stubbed their toe and they started screaming and crying. I would get an anger response where I couldn't even listen to it. And then I wasn't able to even empathize with them for getting hurt, and that made me feel like a shitty mom. And so I just started to notice, why are you responding this way? You're feeling angry, but why just take a step? And I think that is so key, is to just start to notice those emotions so you can really start to change your responses. And I love one of your posts. I was just looking it up so that I didn't misquote you, but you say, what is my most generous interpretation? Can you talk just a little bit about that?
Yara: Yeah, I think that I'm so glad you brought that up actually, because I forgot about that in the moment. But yeah, I feel that it's good. Yeah, when I use that, it takes me out of my own shitstorm in my own head and in my own body, and it grounds me back in the present moment. And I actually use that with everything. I use that with my husband. I find I probably use that more with him, to be honest. So I use that in so many different places, but it allows me to ground myself in the present moment rather than what the narrative is that's going on in my head, which can sometimes be like, oh, I have to do everything myself, or nobody hears me and I'm unimportant, and I can get stuck in that sort of a space, which of course spirals me and really fuels the anger that I'm feeling in those moments. So asking that question of what is my most generous interpretation just helps me realign with what's happening right now. And it also helps me in terms of, well, in my children and my partner, it allows me to connect back to what the need sometimes is beneath whatever that behavior is, which is so important because if we are just looking at behavior from children, we can have a totally different interpretation compared to if we're saying, well, what might be the need beneath this? Right? Even yesterday, my daughter was, I was trying to do some work, and she just kept bringing books to me, and I wasn't responding to her. It was very obvious what her need was. But in my head, I was like, what is my most generous interpretation? Rather than just continuously getting frustrated. And it was like, she really wants just connection time with me. That's what she wants, and it's showing up in all of these ways because I'm not responding in the way that she wants me to. And so it just allowed me to connect back to that rather than getting in that space of like, oh, she's always interrupting me. She's not giving me time to work, blah, blah, blah, can kind of get in this victim space. I can anyway. And so it's really good for me to ground me back in that place. And the other part that does for me is that it allows me to connect back to the little part within me, the little girl within me, because sometimes I can think about what's the most generous interpretation. Sometimes it causes me to think about myself as a child. And when I was acting like that, what would that have meant? And it allows me to have some self-compassion for myself at the same time as being able to gather more compassion for the more challenging sorts of behaviors that maybe my kids are displaying as well. So yeah, I think that that's so useful actually. Where I first heard that was from Dr. Becky, and I just was like, oh my God, that's just brilliant. I love it, and I use it and tell all my clients about it now. I just think it's so brilliant. It's so good. Yeah, and one of the things I also wanted to add there is even when I was talking about using breath or some kind of practice for processing emotions or in the moment and out of the moment and all that sort of stuff, one of the things that I really wanted to say to anyone who's listening is that you can take your time. You have time. Because one of the things I think that can happen when we hear people talk about the tools or the resources or what we should do, what we can do to get through difficult things in our parenting is that we can come away from that thinking, okay, this is what I'm going to do and I'm going to apply that, and then everything's going to be fine. And then when we sometimes do that and it doesn't work, or it's harder than we think it's going to be, then we can end up feeling like we are not doing a good enough job. And it can kind of add to that whole problem of, I'm the problem as a mother because it's not working or because it's not as effective, or whatever it may be. And what I want to remind people who are listening is that I'm sort of eight years into my parenting experience and I'm not a master of these things, and I probably won't be a master of these things for a long, long time. I think it's important to remember that because I think self-compassion is so important for us as mothers, because in a world that doesn't allow mothers to be self-compassionate, we need to gather up as much of that as we can. And so reminding yourself that mastery takes time, that you're a beginner and that you'll make mistakes and that mantra of like, you can take your time and you can try again tomorrow. It's just such an important thing when we are learning new skills and those things are the same things that we offer our children when they are learning, which is every single day. And so it's so important for us to provide that to ourselves. Mothering is a skill we're learning every day. We get better at it every day. We make mistakes and we learn from that, and that's all part of the process. So I just really wanted to share that too.
Rachael: I love that. I think there is this myth that you're either a natural born maternal instinct, you're just good at it or you're not. And it really is a skill that you can hone over time, and that is such a beautiful thing to model to your kids. Thank you so, so much. I know that you talk so much about reparenting and self-compassion and this idea of going back to our own childhood stuff and all of that. So if anyone listening is looking for more information about that or more from Yara about that, you have a wonderful podcast and online courses and of course your fabulous Instagram page. So Yara, thank you so much for joining us today.
Yara: Oh, you're so welcome. I'm so glad to be here. It was wonderful having this chat with you. If you want to find out a bit more about me, you can find me over on Instagram at @lifeafterbirthpsychology. You can also check out my podcast Life After Birth with Yara Heary, or you can also find me on my website, which is lifeafterbirth.com.au.
Rachael: Perfect. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of your weekend.
Yara: Thank you!
