Motherhood: Finding Joy and Authenticity
Episode 42: Motherhood: Finding Joy and Authenticity with Caitlin Wilder @wilderbeginnings
Motherhood can feel so exhausting, isolating, and divisive! It’s also portrayed on social media as just… not fun. Enter Caitlin Wilder. This week, Rachael is joined by Caitlin, a certified doula and mom of two turned social media “mom influencer” to have an open and honest conversation all about motherhood and postpartum realities. Caitlin created her following through sharing her journey of postpartum reality on Instagram and has taken off thanks to her refreshing blend of reality and positivity.. Rachael and Caitlin really MENTION IT ALL in this super cool (not uncool) episode:
Here’s what they discuss inside this insightful episode:
How Caitlin’s authenticity and positivity about motherhood has created a strong & supportive community on social media.
Her experience working at Bravo (!! my dream) before transitioning to the parenting and childbirth space as a doula, and the decision to not return to corporate work after having a baby
The benefits having a doula can have on your birth experience
How to trust your instincts and not be too hard on yourself as a parent
All about feeding choices, sleep etc. as parents- what’s with the divide?
How to have “Second Time Mom Energy” the first time around!
Of course- a little Bravo TV tea… we had to! Hear her behind the scenes opinions and find out what our favorites are and where to begin if you’re just starting your Bravo ✨journey!✨
Caitlin is a certified doula, childbirth educator, and mom of 2 who is doing her best to show the reality of postpartum on social media (the fun/difficult/unhinged and unwashed reality) all while encouraging others to shut out the noise and listen to their own parenting intuition! She started her account as a doula sharing realistic pregnancy advice, and has managed to build the most amazing community on Instagram. It's a mix of fun, education, mayhem, community, inspiration, and emotional violence (She can get very sappy). But all in all - it's a good time!!
Mentioned in this episode:
Caitlin’s instagram: @wilderbeginnings
Book Caitlin as your Doula (LA area) here!
Caitlin’s Merch here- Bad Moms + Babies Club
If you enjoyed this episode, please rate 5⭐️ and write us a review! ⬇️
✨For sleep support and resources, visit heysleepybaby.com and follow @heysleepybaby on Instagram! 😴☁️🤎✨
Rachael is a mom of 3, founder of Hey, Sleepy Baby, and the host of this podcast.
Listen to the full episode
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Welcome to No One Told Us, the podcast that tells the truth about parenting and talks about all the stuff you wish you knew before having kids. I'm your host Rachel and today I'm so excited to have one of my Instagram friends, Caitlin on the pod. Caitlin is a certified doula, childbirth educator and mom of two who's doing her best to show the reality of postpartum on social media, the fun things, the difficult things, the slightly unhinged things, and the unwashed reality. All while encouraging others to shut out the noise and listen to their own parenting intuition. Caitlin started her account as a doula sharing realistic pregnancy advice and has managed to build the most amazing community on Instagram. It's really inspiring, honestly, and it's such a great mix of fun, education, a little bit of mayhem, and lots of great community. She is such a good time, and I'm so happy to be connected with her, so please welcome her to the podcast. Caitlin, thanks so much for being here.
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I can't believe you're letting me be here, so this is a real treat and an honor, and this is either the start of our two women cross country tour, or it's the moment you look back on, like this is where it all went downhill. And I'm just pleased to be there, exactly.
I think it's gonna be the former, honestly, because since we've been connected on Instagram, we have just really gotten along and like hit it off. And I love when that happens. Actually we, I feel like we've been kind of in a weird way connected for a long time because like you've used Hey Sleepy Baby - Yeah. With your first, I would love to hear about like your sleep journey.
First, I kind of wanna just touch on the fact that you are blowing up on social media. Like it's really kind of wild because I feel like we're past that big bubble of like 2020, 2021 where everybody's account was just really growing fast. And it was, you know, all of these parenting people kind of coming on the scene. I feel like you don't see that that much anymore. But I think since I've started following you this past winter, you've gained like 30 ,000 followers. So A, why? Why did you want to do this? Why did you want to do this? And B, how? Like, how do you think that's happening?
Yeah, I mean, I would say why. The key is I don't think about anything I do, which is both frightening, but also very freeing. And I just was like, I need clients as a doula and people will check your Instagram. So I started my Instagram and I was doing a lot of education and then I was pregnant. So I started sharing more of like my personal reality and I forget that there's like people watching. So I just like go on my phone. Yeah. And I'm like, I haven't showered in a week. That's fine. And like truly crazy. And I realized people were seeing themselves. And you don't see that a lot on Instagram. And it wasn't like fake. I wasn't like, Oh, I'm so unwashed. And like, I look fantastic with like, like, no, I looked a freaking mess. And I was talking about it. And I think people responded to it.
And I shared a lot of the realities of the situation, like how postpartum is so wonderful, but so hard. But also, it doesn't have to be all that you are Like, if it's hard, it doesn't have to bring you down. You can still have a good time if it's hard, and I think people liked to see that. But I also think everybody that follows me is also a little bit unwell, and they appreciate just having like an unwell leader leading the way. But no, I don't know why anybody follows me. Every time I get a follow where I'm like, "Are you sure?" Like Jill Zarin this morning, I'm like, "I think you clicked the wrong button, Jill." Can we - Can we talk about the Jill of it all?
33 minutes, the best 33 minutes of my life.
Honestly, like that's your high. It's only downhill from here. Put it on the gravestone, like take me out now. I don't need anything else.
No, but I think you just touched on exactly what it is. It's like you're sharing the duality of motherhood that it can be so hard, but it's also really wonderful a lot of the times. And I feel like - We don't see a lot of that. It's either people who are showing like the hot mess all the time, talking about just how awful things are all the time, complaining all the time. But then there's also the people that are a little bit unrealistic and not showing, you know, the struggles and there's not a lot of people in between. So I think that's why you're such a breath of fresh air.
I got caught in a Utah homesteader, mother of 8 making homemade goldfish crackers from their beef tallow from the cow they raised in their backyard algorithm. And while I love that, that's not most people's experience. And so I like to just put out there like, hey, there's someone else, you know, just kind of like bopping around life, but inviting you along for the journey. And that's what I'm doing.
I love that. Well, we also bond over our love of Bravo. And you actually have like very much of an inside scoop on all things Bravo because you used to work for them before you worked in the parenting and childbirth space. So can you please talk to me about that journey because that seems like a very wide berth? Like how do you go from one of those things to the other?
Yeah, so I growing up, I always wanted to be a talk show host or a newscaster, like a news anchor. So I actually went to college for broadcast journalism to be a news anchor halfway through. I was like, 'cause you have to move to small markets and I'm deeply obsessed, codependent with my family. And I was like, I don't wanna move to some small market to be a news anchor. Like if you're not putting me on like world news tonight, like I'm out. So I then decided I was gonna major in history. Then I graduated from college with a degree in history and no job. And I was like, I'm just gonna make a list of things I personally love in my life.
And Bravo was top of the list. Like, I started watching Bravo with original query for the straight guy, boy meets boy, like 2003. Yeah, I'm, I, yeah, I met a guy freshman year of college who said he was from Coto and I screamed. And I said, you're from behind the gates. And he was like, please like back away from me slowly. Like you are not okay. So I've been for around for a while, right?
So I sent an email to Bravo and this was when interns had to be college students still. I signed up for a course at like UCLA extension so I could still be considered a college student, sent an email to Bravo and was like, I majored in history. I unofficially majored in Bravo. I don't have any of the skills you're looking for, but my passion is so deep that like I will make up for whatever I'm actually lacking. They hired me. No. I don't know why, but I was there and like it was, I, I'm going to be totally honest, didn't care about my actual job. It was the fact that I was at Bravo every day. I had to constantly tell people like I'm not a mole. I promise because I would run into people's offices and be like, is it about Tom? Like what's going? I mean, I was the biggest fan.
I would DM like DM like teams message like random producers and be like,
oh, I was just curious like how the summer house shoot went yesterday and like did anything happen and like what's going on. And I was just, I loved being there. It was fantastic. I got to meet Andy Cohen. I was the head of the social committee, which was just an excuse to throw events to invite Bravo leberties to stop it.
Oh my God. I know I met Vicki once and she held me and I cried into her coyote vest, her vest because I was like, you, you don't know. I mean, like get out the chisels on Mount Rushmore and put all of her 10 faces up there because that woman has changed pop culture.
Vicki is my queen. She is my queen.
And our prop deeply problematic. I know that that is an unpopular opinion. She's like a Trumper and all the other stuff. Like I know she is deeply problematic, but I just can't help myself when it comes to Vicki Gunvalson.
But you know what, we need to come together right now in this country. And if that means coming together with Vicki Gunvalson, let's rally around Vicki. Let's all just rally around. Let's rally around Vicki. That's what we Um, but so I was at Bravo and then I, um, when I had my son had a doula and it was an amazing experience and I just was getting again, like loved being at Bravo, didn't really care about the job was getting very like, I couldn't imagine just being a middle manager for the rest of my life and I didn't want to put in the work to like climb the corporate ladder.
I mean, entertainment is really corporate too at the end of the day like and you have to like play the game and all of that and I was so disinterested after I had my son and I had a doula then I did this doula mentorship with Laurie Bregman who's like the big LA celebrity doula and I just was like this is like I can't believe I can be part of somebody's birth story when they tell the story to their child of how they were born they're gonna be like oh yeah and there's this woman in the corner and she was helping us and that's gonna be me.
You're the woman in the corner.
I'm the woman in the corner taking the pictures and it was amazing and I started with friends and then just kind of went from there and it's been like such a wonderful experience and doing the childbirth education it's I always loved weird medical stuff but didn't want to go to school for 20 years to be a doctor so I'm like this is combined my love of medical stuff and my like wanting to share information like a newscaster and then just being you know just all has come together. And now here I am.
That is so perfect. We had a doula for all of our births as well. I mean, she didn't make it to our second. But yeah, it's one of the things that I recommend to anybody I know that's pregnant. Like, are you gonna have a doula because it was so, so positive for me. Do you find that people are like receptive to it or do people still think it's- I don't know I feel like- yeah it's not something you hear about all that much.
Yeah I mean I definitely think being in LA I'm lucky because it is more common in LA but there are still people that have no idea like I was just talking to a friend I used to work with and she was like oh should I do a birth plan and I was like yes you should do a birth plan and then she was like okay so what should I say about pitocin And like, what about an episiotomy? And like, all of these things that I'm like, if we hadn't talked, you would have gone into your birth and you would have had no role in your actual birth.
Right.
Because the doctors and nurses would have just done whatever they wanted to do to you, and you would have had no idea. And it's crazy to me that we are allowing that birth experience to be taken from us in such a way because we don't know what we don't know and the doctors aren't going to tell you because they want to do, you know, and the doctors aren't trying to harm you, but they're trying, their end goal is like healthy baby and, you know, not getting sued. And so they're going to jump to like whatever the immediate action is to make that happen. But you're skipping like 100 steps to avoid getting there. But they're acting as if you're already there.
Right. And they want it, they want it to be quick too.
Totally. They want it to be quick because also, I mean, they have so many other patients and nurses have so many patients. It's not their fault. They're like overwhelmed. Um, but, uh, so a lot of people in LA do have it, but there is still definitely a lot of people that think it's like not for them or it's beyond them or it's not something they need because they are planning on getting an epidural and it's like sometimes when you're getting an epidural, that's when you need a duala- the most because you need someone to still help you and advocate for you and all of that. So It's still at that stage where like a lot of people like, you know, celebrities will all have doulas and it's more now, you know, the more normies like me that are having doulas.
You're not a normie. Do you do a lot of hospital births or home births or is it like 50 /50?
I've only done hospital births. Oh, okay. I have not done a home birth. I'm a real hospital birth girl because that's what like 99% of people are having. A lot of doulas will be very much, not really into hospital births, they only want to support a home birth. But I think it's the people that are going to the hospital births that have decided they want that, that really do need the most support because you're just kind of like handing your birth over and you have no idea what you're possibly missing out on.
Yeah, that's so true. I loved our doula experience so much. And actually, one of my favorite things you mentioned. One of my favorite things about having are doula was the pictures that they got. It was like, it's like a two for one special. We didn't need a birth photographer because our doula is there just snapping away. And you know, she got a lot of unfortunate angles as well. But I am still happy that I have those to look back on one day.
Yes. I was just at a birth and I took a bunch of photos and she was like, "Thank you for taking these photos that I will both cherish and guard with my life because they're the most horrific photos. And I'm like, well, also, that's birth. Like, you're not, that's what it is. And we're doing, you know, I think you look amazing. But yeah, you know, there's some jump scares in there.
There really are. We're going to take one quick break. And when we come back, I want to hear about your most recent birth. We'll be right back.
Okay, we are back with Caitlin and I would love to hear a little bit about your most recent birth or whichever birth you care to share about because you have two kids. But you are postpartum right now, like six months, seven months?
Yes, seven months, which I will say I'm postpartum until I die, like I've got two kids under 48. I'm claiming that forever.
They're 94 months.
Yeah, exactly. So how did your birth go? And since you are a doula, did you have a doula, or did you doula yourself? How does that work?
I 1 ,000 % had a doula. I am my own worst enemy. I am constantly the problem in my own life, and I needed to get out of the way and have a professional step in. I so with my son, it was still peak COVID, he was born February 2021. So it was a hospital birth. Every photo I'm wearing a mask in. I got an epidural with him. And some people have beautiful epidural experiences. I was like messed up from my epidural. I was very drugged. And I didn't know that wasn't the normal experience until I've seen now other experiences.
I also had to go on magnesium after because I had high blood pressure. So magnesium, you're not allowed to be alone with your baby when you're on magnesium because you can't walk. Your blood vessels are super diet. So like when my husband went to get coffee, the nurse had to come take my son out of the room because I couldn't be alone with him.
Yeah. So my first experience was so medicated that I was like my second birth, I wanna do unmedicated. And then unmedicated hospital birth is not very normal. Most people, if you're unmedicated, will stay home. But I, you know, I like to make things more difficult for myself when there's like a little spicier. So I was like, we're gonna do unmedicated. And I did a ton of like mental prep. I had a doula, Catherine Dieb, she's in Florida. I flew her out from Florida. She's amazing. Um, and I went into labor… second babies very fast as you know, I almost had a bathroom baby experience.
Um, I decided when I started my labor that I could control it and I was going to actually like take my body out of labor because the timing of it wasn't working for me because I wanted my, which spoiler alert, you cannot do.
Yeah, I was going to say is that is that actually a thing?
No, that's how you almost have a baby on Laurel Canyon in your sister's car. Because I wanted my son to be able to have a normal morning and like have my husband take him to school. So I went into labor long story short, denied that I was in labor. My husband came in at one point and asked for something because we were in different rooms and I said I'm in labor and he went, yeah, me too and walked out because he thought I was saying something else. And I was like, okay. So I labored solo.
My doula kept being like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all good. And she was like, I think you're lying to me. And I was like, no, don't worry about it. I was lying to everyone. I was like so deep in labor. Got to the point where I was like, I've let this go too far. I need to go. My sister had to come pick me up from my house. She came and found me in the shower. I was in the shower on all fours. And I was like, I'm pushing. And then I was like, so let's get in the car and drive over the hill.
No, on a one lane canyon road to get to the hospital. No. Yeah, it was not listen, I made a lot of bad choices. But it worked out in the end, because I got to the hospital and from the time I like pulled the ticket to like get into the parking lot to the time that there was a baby behind me on the bed because I delivered on all fours was 20 minutes to dot- my like that was my husband didn't make it. My doctor didn't make it.
It was just my doula and I and my sister was like down in the parking lot waiting for my husband. I was when I when i went to this most recent birth I had, the doctor, like the resident, looked just really familiar. And I showed her a photo for my birth. And I was like, is this you? And she was like, oh, I remember you. I remember hearing screaming and I just followed the screams down the hallway until I was in your room. And then there was a baby coming out. And so I just delivered your baby. And I was like, yeah, that was it. That was me.
Oh my God, I didn't realize that your husband had missed it.
How did he feel about that?
He missed, yeah, he missed it. Honestly, I believe everything, you know, in your birth teaches you something and happens for whatever reason it's meant to happen. I'm really glad he was not the one driving me in the car because I think he would have been freaking out. And my sister is a therapist and was very calm and cool and collected. And that was the energy I needed. So obviously it was like a big bummer that he wasn't there, but I personally would not change a single thing about how it went down.
That's incredible. Oh my gosh. Wow. So you really did almost have a home birth or a car birth.
It was great. Those second babies, man. A car birth. The second babies, they just shoot right out of you.
They really don't give a fuck, they are coming when they want to come. Oh my gosh.
No. Well, okay, so That story just put a lot of you into context for me because I feel like one reason I love you and so many other people love you is because you have this energy of just like, yeah, like it's fine, you know, things happen, it is what it is, we don't need to like, you know, flip out about everything and it's this like second time mom energy thing that you have going that I just love so much and that I try to bring to my community as well and part of it's hard because unless you have more than one kid, I feel like it is very hard to have that perspective of like everything is a phase, everything is a season, it is okay, the world is not going to end if your baby doesn't take a 47 minute nap..
How, how has your second postpartum experience been different from your first?
Night and day. And that's kind of what I really try to share on my Instagram. My first postpartum, like I, I, I ruined it myself. Like it's a very easy for me to say that because I was so obsessed. Like I don't, I don't know who my son was as a baby because I was so focused on trying to make him be someone he wasn't and isn't. I was so obsessed with his sleep and with schedules and with trying to make him fit into some box that he didn't fit in. I mean, I lived and died by his naps. Like if he had a short nap, that my day was over. Like I would be like rage texting my husband of like, I'm stuck in the bed again.
And I was thinking this morning, it's because sleep accounts and maybe they I'll say it, but I don't look used to say things like naps are so important because that's when the brain develops. Yeah. So I'm like, Oh my God. So my kid's going to be an idiot because he can't sleep and he's not going to develop the way he should. I mean, he still eats dirt, but that's all toddlers now. Like someone should have told me it's going to happen no matter what.
But I got in my head of like, Oh my God, I'm going to ruin his brain because he's not sleeping. And then the whole sleep, begets sleep. So then it's like, like he's not napping so now he's not gonna sleep at night and I'm not supposed to hold him because that's gonna create a bad habit but he won't sleep unless I hold him so I'm gonna be panicked the whole time. I mean it was so frustrating and I like I said I was doing it to myself and I would screenshot like I found your account during that time and the amount of posts I saved that was just like it's okay this is normal like normalizing infant sleep, I think was the, is the biggest thing that like you do for people and that you did for me.
Absolutely. And I would screenshot people saying like, Oh, my baby was up like five times last night and I'm okay with that because you don't see that message of like, you can be okay with that happening. It doesn't have to be my baby was up five times last night. I'm miserable. This there's something wrong. There's something broken. I have to fix him.
It can be this is just what's happening and I'm okay giving my child what they need. And I, it took having a second baby and that confidence and knowing that that's okay to get to that place. And so like, that's what I really try to impart to people too of like, if you don't have a second kid, try to have second time mom energy in your first experience. Like, don't rob yourself of that experience. You deserve better. Your baby deserves better.
And you have to kind of fight for it though, and you have to block out the accounts that don't make you feel that way and find the people that do make you feel that way and encourage you to do what you want to do and remind you that it's all just a season. And that's really what I try to do. Sometimes it lands and sometimes the plan is just like circling and circling and circling and doesn't land. But I feel like when it does, I sometimes I'm like, I wish I could have found somebody like me at that time. And that's like a really, I feel very like delusional saying that, but you know, that's what I try to give of like what I would have liked to have seen.
100 % same. And I think you probably get these messages because I get these messages where people will say like, Oh, I didn't have to have this experience with my first baby because I found your account, you know, and to me, that's - Yes, which is crazy. - Yeah, it's like the best thing I could ever hear is like I'm helping prevent that experience that I had and it sounds like that you had from happening to somebody else and they're getting to like enjoy their baby. And it just breaks my heart that people are having those types of experiences still so often because of those unrealistic expectations.
I completely agree. And it's crazy too, like being involved in people's pregnancies and births, that it starts from there. And like, then you go, so you're missing your entire like pregnancy and labor and delivery, and then you're going into postpartum. And none of it is how you would have wanted to do it. You're being basically like, you know, pushed into these boxes all along that go against everything that you feel is right, but you don't know what else to do. And we're just being, I mean, listen, I don't know, the patriarchy, whatever, we're just being robbed completely of like what our experiences should be.
And we have no idea until someone kind of like slaps us across the face. And it's like, this doesn't have to be like this. And so if I have to be that slap, I will be that slap of like, you know, like, let's wake up, let's have a good time. Let's not, you know, Ruin this for ourselves if we don't have to if you want to hold your baby because a new Valley episode just came out Or you've got to watch summer house to see what is going on with West and Sierra Hello, hold your baby for that reason and do a contact nap. That's okay, too
Yes, I love it and we are at the end going to get to some Bravo recommendations because this is something I always get asked is like Where do I start with Bravo? So we will get there one thing that I also wanted to Touch on was just how honest you are, you're very honest about sleep, but you're also very honest about your feeding journey and just being very open about like, this is what normal pumping looks like, or like we're going to introduce, you know, some combo feeding or we're just kind of going with it. And I would love for you to talk more about how that has been going for you this postpartum with the feeding.
So with both of my kids, they had tongue ties, my sons was super severe, had to do PT, chiro, had to do triple feeding from the beginning, all of that. And then got way better, had a good situation…. with my daughter. She also had a tongue tie, chiro, she, because toddlers are like disgusting cesspools of germs, love them, but like what's going on.
She was so gross. She was basically sick her entire life because she was born in the fall. So from like what maybe the month of November, she dropped from the 65th percentile to the 17th percentile in weight because she was just not eating because she was super stuffed up.
I had no idea she wasn't eating. She was not showing signs of being hungry or unhappy. she would act like everything was fine. And so when we saw that at the doctor, I just was like, Oh my God, it's so triggering. You think you're like starving your baby. My supply had totally tanked. So I think it's important to show people like it's not just baby latches and then you're good. It's there is this stress of is baby getting enough? You know, am I missing something, I then happily moved on to formula. I think formula is an amazing option for people. It's crazy to me that it gets demonized. I had some very angry lactation people come at me when I said that I love formula, which is crazy.
So to me, I've had a successful breastfeeding journey and I'm happy to say that, but success to me was nursing strikes, supply dips, pumping, pumping normal amounts which is like one ounces combined like my milk picture is like a thimble like that is totally normal and again I don't think people see that. They either see like I'm just doing like formula or I the baby latch and I'm in my field of wildflowers in my do -and -dress with my hair flowing and like everything's perfect and you don't see the ups and downs and small amounts and struggles and also being like, I don't love this, but I'm happy to do it. And I also know I'm going to get to a point where I'm just done doing it and that's okay too. And I don't have to feel guilty for it.
The guilt that we all put on ourselves is so crazy. And so sometimes just having a stranger tell you, Hey, it's okay if you make a different choice. If you have to make a choice that maybe wasn't your first choice, it's okay to do that. It doesn't matter. Like the least interesting thing about you is how much milk your body produces. But that's all we see. I mean, we've, you know, when I feel about the people that are like, I'm breastfeeding, but here's my giant pitcher of milk that just appeared in my fridge.
And it's like, talk about how often you're pumping, Tell people why you're pumping. Tell people how many bottles your baby is getting. Like, why are we hiding this? So that's again, to me, it's just like showing the reality of a situation because I think my situation is probably far more universal, but people just aren't talking about it.
Oh, for sure. For sure. And like, you know, the same go, yeah, the same goes for sleep whenever I talk about how my 18 month old is like not sleeping through the night and she still needs to be touching my body to sleep. There are so many people that say, oh my gosh, me too, like I thought it was just my toddler when, you know, and-- - Totally. - I think it really does parent such a disservice when all we're showing is the good stuff, even though like my livelihood is to teach people how to get their baby to sleep. Like it really would be better for me probably financially to say that all of my kids are amazing sleepers, but I just can't do that. I just have to be honest and I have to normalize it for people that are out there thinking that they're crazy or that they're doing something wrong, right?
Yeah. But to me, though, you are the sleep trainer that I would want, not sleep trainer, you know, sleep expert that I would want to go to because that to me shows you having normal sleep experience. You've felt the trials and tribulations. You understand what it's like. And then also to still not feel comfortable doing like a cry it out sleep training method. And like that's also what you don't see. You see people who were like, Oh, I started this program because I was exhausted and I needed my babies to sleep. And so buy this now because I got my babies to sleep. And it's like, but I don't want to have to do that.
Like I wanted a gentle approach that makes me feel good. It doesn't make me feel bad. And that's why I would rather, and I did, I have done multiple courses of yours and had consultations. I mean, I don't want to like single white female you- that this is like the culmination of like years of following you, but it a little bit is because that's what I needed to see and still to this day need to see like I love that.
Yeah. And I think too, something that you and I both do, which is huge is again, being like, you don't have to be miserable. You don't have to be upset that you're doing this. You can say, I'm not sleep training. I'm getting up multiple times in the night and I'm fine. And I love it. And like, I don't need you to say I'm so sorry. Like, I will throw something at you if you tell me you're so sorry for my life and my situation that I'm Completely content with.
Right and I think that's what's huge too to see is like you can be getting up multiple times a night And still be okay and not think like that your baby is a problem that needs to be fixed. Yeah, it can just be a piece of your life.
Yeah, and it's only for right now I think that's the other piece that comes with this like second time mom energy that we're talking about is like Once you've been through it and once you've been through the baby stage and and you've been through toddler stage, you realize how short these seasons actually are in the long run and it makes you so much-- - Absolutely. - Better equipped, even my husband says this all the time, like, "Oh my gosh, I'd be really worried if we hadn't already gone through this with Noe."
Like, 'cause all you see is babies and toddlers this age sleeping through the night and sleeping in their own room. And honestly, it's all bullshit anyway, like everybody's just lying or they're only showing the good. Everyone's lying.
Everyone's lying.
I was at a mom conference, like, which is so embarrassing. I was at a mom conference a few weeks ago and I was talking with this older lady. She was probably like in her 50s or 60s, like close to my parents' age. And I was telling her what I did and she didn't really get it. I don't think, you know, this stuff really existed back then.
Yeah. But I was like, yeah, so, you know, I work with families around sleep. And she's like, oh my gosh, sleep for us was such a disaster. You know, my kids just ended up in my bed until they were like seven. And I was like, you know what? That is probably so much more honest and so much more the norm than anybody would even realize. And then the same thing happened recently. I was talking to, I forget where I was, like the nail salon or a restaurant or something.
And it came up again. And this older woman, she wasn't older, older. She was older than me. Her kids were in like high school or something. But she said the same thing. Like, yeah, sleep, sleep for us was a complete dumpster fire. like it was just awful. I don't think I slept for years.
And I just, I wanna see that side of things being more normalized for people too is like, you, I don't know, like you'll get through it. And it's such a short time.
It's such a short time. And then you'll be like, oh, I want my son to want me to come move to his college with him and sleep on the floor of his dorm room when he is 18.
I wanna go visit him and do beer bongs with him and his friends like Vicky.
Yeah, 1 ,000 % so it's also like, it's such a short season and you'll get out of it and then you will immediately be like, I am so sad that doesn't happen anymore.
I know, oh my gosh, it's gonna be, oh, I can't even think about that. We're gonna take another quick break and then when we come back, I have some bravo questions for you. We'll be right back.
Oh, I can't wait. Alright, we are back with Caitlin from Wilder Beginnings and I have loved this conversation so much I feel like we could talk all day and maybe we will talk all day when I come to LA and we have our meet -up in the Sur alley by the dump Sponsored by Ellie City Sanitation. 100 % we could have DJ James Kennedy. The iconic Trash Can.
We have to make it happen. Okay, we have to. We're gonna make it happen. Nothing says mom's coming together like limp julienne vegetables under some lukewarm goat cheese balls. And with like alley dumpster sense like wafting through the air, we're going to do it.
It's going to be fantastic. It's going to be the best. Okay, but on that topic of bravo. Okay, so I am very unapologetic about my love for bravo as are you. And I have to say I'm a little bit shocked and appalled at the number of people in my community that are not yet watching bravo. But I see it as a very big responsibility
Electric, chair. - Yes, I see, like what are you guys doing? But I do see it as a big responsibility of mine to like to lead them down the correct path. So I know what I would say when people ask me where do I start. I want to get into Bravo, I want to start a new show. Lots of people that come to us are like really pregnant or about to be postpartum and they have tons of time to watch TV, which I am so jealous of.
So where would you start? What is your expert advice on what to start with?
Okay, that is such a difficult question. I will also say there was a big thing at Bravo that we did where it was like, it's not guilty. It's like, it's not your guilty pleasure. Like, why are you feeling guilty about it? It's fantastic television. Also, Bravo's audience was the most affluent and educated female audience of any television network.
There you go. So it's like a cable network. I will die on the hill that there is no show that shows realer women. It is peak feminism to me to watch "Real Housewives." I'm sorry.
You cannot script a Ramona. You cannot script a Countess Luanne.
The arc of Countess Luanne, I'm sorry. Television gold, there's never been anything like it, never.
Nothing, nothing. Okay, where would I start. I would say I think you got to start with the OG and the OC. Start season one because you got to get a sense of where we came from. We have to know where we started, get our history, get our sea legs before we then move forth into the Bravo world. So I would say start with OC. And then if you're going to do, you know, New York, obviously go to next, you could skip like the middle seasons, like Cindy Bar Shop, like the jazzling and co -hog or wherever. You can like skip those.
Vanderpump rules, season one, there is no bad Vanderpump. Summerhouse, skip the first two seasons, start season three with Paige. There is no bad Bravo show. Even a bad show is a good show.
Agreed. Like Jersey, Fantastic at the beginning. I mean you it's I tell people to it's like it's a cultural study. Yeah, it's not it's it's and you're not just watching a reality show like This should be studied in Colleges around the country around the world like it's an anthropological Exploration of our country and I are they're not calling horses being taught at like a PhD level, I don't understand. There truly should be. And I think you and I would definitely have them and a PhD. Maybe we can be invited to speak once they eventually.
Oh, my God. Absolutely. It's just so I will say also Top Chef is a great. Yes. Top Chef is not really like they had to literally change the title to Bravo Top Chef because nobody knew Top Chef was on Bravo because the Top Chef audience doesn't typically watch any other Bravo show, but Top Chef is a fantastic postpartum show. I watched, like with this recent postpartum, I watched like three Top Chef seasons and they were great. Because it's like low stress. There's not like, if you're somebody that doesn't like fighting or yelling, totally, that could be a good entry point for you. I also find that Below Deck is a great entry
Yes, how could I forget? It's a great entry point. And if you want to get your husband or boyfriend or whoever to watch with you, that is a great one. That's a great one. My husband loves it. Yes, I'm a big Below Deck sailing yacht fan. Skip season one of sailing yacht. Seasons two, three, four, best Below Deck seasons out of the entire franchise.
Yeah, Below Deck is really good. Below -deck is so good. It's all good. It's all good. You cannot go wrong. You really can't. And yeah, people ask, like, my favorite housewives' franchises, and there's just... What is your favorite housewife franchise?
It's like choosing children. I can't, like... Yeah. I can't... Okay. I could do a top three, I think.
Oh, please do. And I think my top three would be the OC, which I know is a very unpopular opinion. I know that that... Yeah. - That will get me some side eye for sure. But I think that like you said, it's just such a different cultural, they're just so wild. Like they're just so, to me they're like-- - They are so wild.
The epitome of housewife out of touch, just like completely narcissistic.
Yes. - Completely unhinged. - Yes. - They're just wild. So I do love the OC and I think that there has been a lot of like really interesting storylines on that show, like the Brooks of it all, "Faking Cancer." Like, you can't get that scripted. Oh my god. I'm sorry, you just can't. No, you cannot. No, you cannot. And the way Vicki kept going back to him and the city of hope forged documents, I mean. Like gold.
I also, New York is my favorite. New York is my comfort show. Every time I'm pregnant, every time I'm sick, I had COVID in January and I watched from season one and made it all the way through. And it was just delightful. New York will probably always be my number one if I had to choose. And I also, I love Beverly Hills and I love Potomac. Potomac, I also think is maybe the most consistently good. This last season was a flop for sure, but-- - Totally, but the other season's fantastic.
Yeah, yeah. - I think it's hard too because each, you know, you can love a city and And, but there's different, every seat, everybody's an off season. Everybody has a couple of cast shakeups that need to happen or we're something dragged on it, like never bring up Lucy, Lucy, Apple, Juicy or whatever on Beverly Hills. But there was so many other. So it's hard to like, it's hard to love. It's hard to pick one. I love OC.
Maybe I didn't love the most recent seasons as much, but that doesn't take away Vicki falling on her face at the like homeowners association and Kodo like yelling about a family van family van. I mean, the things that I are ingrained in my being also sometimes I'm like, could I be a genius if I had never found Bravo because the things that it's taking up the space in my brain, but the amount of time happily.
I know. I know. But like you said, I think there's also a lot of just like pop culture references that come from Bravo shows that you just you don't realize are from a Bravo show until until you start watching them. So if you want to be like in the know with certain things, I think it's also just important to watch. And there's no better feeling than having a full season of Housewives to watch with your cuddly newborn.And like that's all you have to do for the day. Like I just kill for that.
A thousand percent. Also, there's no greater unifier than when you find out somebody else also watches Bravo and you're like, Oh, great, I can talk to you for an hour, we are the same person. Yeah, I connect with you. Like I can't think of another like thing that defines somebody that more immediately makes me connected to them.
No, same. Oh, you're also a Bravo viewer. It's like how I would imagine my husband feels about other sports fans or like 49ers fans or Warriors fans or something. Yes. Yes. But I still don't even think it's the same. I don't think it says deep.
Have you ever been to BravoCon? I didn't go to BravoCon because the Bravo Con, I was in Japan on my honeymoon and the next one they did, I was on maternity leave. So I never got to go to Bravo Con. But I've been to watch what happens live. I met Andy and talked to Andy a lot. I used to pay Andy's invoices. So he would email me all the time and we would talk on the phone.
You knew Andy's finances? Yes, which that's a whole other story for another day. But Andy is, From everything I've experienced, exactly who you think he is, like he used to come into the office to like meet with my boss and would just be like walking around and wouldn't, I mean totally normal, so friendly, so nice, like such a nice guy, very down to earth. Um, but I got to go like, I was on the reunion set when Kim handed back the blue bunny to Lisa Rinna.
You were there. I was, I was there and I grabbed the hand of the press girl next to me and we were like, I mean, I've never experienced something like that in my life. Name a tensor moment. I can't drop. I know. I can't. I know. I got to, I was on the reunion set when James and Rachel- Raquel said that they had ended their engagement and no one knew….
yeah I got to I'm if you do do a rewatch of Top Chef you will see my face on the LA season- I got to go to like multiple Top Chef meals… the thing is like it's not a set it's a reality show but reunions are set so you can go to that and Top Chef obviously but it's like I there's some wash ovens live at or some Vanderpump I went to sir and I was like in the background of that. I mean everywhere I could insert myself because I'm the biggest fan that's what I'm telling you like every day I was like I can't believe I'm here.
I can't believe my key badge worked today again. I can't believe they're letting me in this office like do they know who I am and like but I every day too would have to be like I promise I'm not selling stories to radar online. I promise I'm not like I'm just genuinely very excited.
Who do you think is selling the stories? Who does sell the stories? Does the call come in from inside the house most of the time?
Yes.
Yeah, I bet. And the production companies, but I was working a theory when I was there, but it's for sure. Also people just like will tell stuff to report. Like Danny Pellegrino for sure, he's like admitted, he gets inside information from people that work there. Also because there are other people there that are just like fans and have fun and we'll like talk about things that are going on. And then you're like, Oh, I'm not actually supposed to be like talking about this because nobody knows.
I'm shocked that they're doing this whole like, don't reveal what's going on with West and Sierra that they've been doing this for so like even on Watch What Happens Live, Andy will be like, Oh, well, we're not going to talk about what's going on right now. I mean, I definitely don't think they're together, but it's been interesting that they've tried to like keep that well it's definitely it's definitely interesting to watch as a fan now versus maybe like five or ten years ago because social media has made these story lines it's almost like a storyline in itself and I see a lot more of like the breaking of the fourth wall on the shows which I I actually love.
I love it when they talk about the fact that they're on tv like let's just talk about it yes um so I love that. I think it's thrilling, but it is. It is a different, a different layer than, than what it used to be for sure.
Oh yeah. I mean, I love that like Dumois talked about all the time on the shows now and like what people in like on summer house, when they said Danielle gave that story about Craig getting kicked out of the wedding, like I love. And then even on the recent one, when they were like, you have to tell Lindsay about the conversation you had because there's cameraman all around like she's going she's gonna see this,
I love that. I think it's so good, because that's the reality. Also though, these aren't like normal people anymore. These are reality stars, and you have to acknowledge that as part of their experience.
Exactly, and like we're watching and we're not stupid. - I love it. - We just, you know, they have to, they have to treat us like we understand what's going on.
Okay, well, we're gonna wrap it up there. I love you. And then we're going to start a side Bravo behind the paywall Patreon 100 % we have to continue this. We have to do it. There's just too much to unpack.
My last question for you though is what do you wish that someone had told you before you became a mom?
Oh my gosh, that's such a good question. I wish someone had told me to put down my phone to not try to make my baby be anybody that he's not to, I mean, I'm going to tell you a 10 ,000 things now, I know you said one thing. But just to remember like my, and I try to say this all the time, my son picked me to be his mom because he knew I would be the best mom for him, not because he knew I would be the best at following a strict schedule at ignoring his needs because somebody told me that he should be doing something else, but that because he picked me because he knew I would love him the way he needed to be loved and care for him and to just let that be my guiding light and not all of the shoulds.
He should be sleeping this way. He should be on the schedule. He should be doing that. And instead it should just be like, what feels right to me is what he needs and that's all that matters. Like make parenting the 1980s again. Don't listen to what other people are doing. Like just listen to yourself and people that you trust and shut out the people that don't feel right for you. If you have friends that sleep, did sleep training at three months and that doesn't feel right to you, don't talk to them about sleep. Like you have to set your own boundaries and just make this bubble of you and your baby. And those are the 10 things to your one thing answer.
Those are all so good though. I don't know how you would have chosen just one. So thank you for sharing all of them. And if people want more of your most inner thoughts and wisdom and advice, they can follow you wilder beginnings. And do you want to just tell people really quick, like where else they can find you or what you have?
Yes, you can find me on wilder beginnings. Somebody said once it was a perfect combination of education and mayhem. And I found that to be very fitting. I I love that. Truly just having like both a good time and just a time because sometimes things aren't good or bad. They're just things that are happening and that's what I like to show. So come on over for that.
I do try to share some education and things. I will go off on tangents about raccoons that are in my backyard, but honestly, we're just all in it together. It's like friends hanging out. I also do in -person doula work. If somebody needs that, I love virtual doula work. I do still like have a job aside from just like being wild on Instagram. So DM me, send me an email, like let's hang out.
I love that. Thank you so much for joining today.
Thank you for having me so much. Again, I have to say like, not in a weird way, but you are truly our sleep icon queen legend, and this is a dream come true to be talking to you and to be in your DMs and message you and chat with you and get voice notes from you. It's honestly like, again, put that on my gravestone. I got voice notes from Hey Sleepy Baby.
Oh my gosh, stop it. Likewise. I'm so happy we're connected. And I'm glad that people listening to this, maybe who aren't familiar with you, that they will get to come over and have fun on your page, because it's the best.
That would be a dream. And thank you truly for everything you do for all of us. Amazing. Podcasts that I have just dragged down into the gutter with me.
It's really every other episode is fantastic. So this one's going to be a favorite. I can feel it. Well, for you and I maybe.
But anyways, thank you so much truly. This was a dream, and I'm honestly sure I'll probably talk to you later in the DM. We will talk later. I'm sure yeah. Yeah, bye Bye
