Body Safety and Abuse Prevention: Keeping Kids Safe
Episode 30: Body Safety and Abuse Prevention: Keeping Kids Safe with Feather Berkower @parentingsafechildren
This week Rachael has a very important conversation with Feather Berkower, a leader and well known author in child sexual abuse prevention. Feather educates us on ways we can protect our children when we are not with them and emphasizes the importance of pushing through our own discomfort to have these tough conversations.
In this important episode, Rachael and Feather discuss how to teach children protection skills without scaring them, what makes a child most vulnerable to abuse, and the signs that abuse has occurred. Feather shares tips on ways we can speak to friends and family about the values we are teaching our children in relation to body safety and how to begin having conversations around this topic at a very young age.
Feather is a licensed clinical social worker who holds a Master’s of Social Welfare from the University of California, Berkeley. She has been a leader in child sexual abuse prevention since 1985 and has educated nearly one-hundred fifty thousand schoolchildren, parents and youth professionals. Her well-regarded workshop, Parenting Safe Children, empowers adults to keep children safe from sexual assault. Feather co-authored Off Limits, a parenting book that will change the way you think about keeping children safe.. Feather makes this difficult topic less scary, and consistently impresses audiences with her knowledge, commitment, and warmth.
Mentioned in this episode:
Feather’s Book: “Off Limits: A Parent’s Guide to Keeping Kids Safe from Sexual Abuse”
Feather’s Instagram here
Feather’s Live Zoom Workshop for Parenting Safe Children in March & April: Sign Up here
Rachael is a mom of 3, founder of Hey, Sleepy Baby, and the host of this podcast.
Listen to the full episode
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Rachael Shepard-Ohta (00:00.078)
Welcome back to No One Told Us, the podcast that tells the truth about parenting and talks about all the stuff you wish you knew before having kids. I'm your host, Rachel, and today I'm speaking with Feather Berkower, a licensed clinical social worker who holds a master's of social work from the University of California, Berkeley. She's been a leader in child sexual abuse prevention since 1985 and has educated nearly 150 ,000 school children, parents, and youth professionals.
Feather's well -regarded workshop, Parenting Safe Children, which I will be attending in March, empowers young children, sorry, I'm gonna start that over, empowers adults and caregivers to keep children safe from sexual assault. Feather also co -authored Off Limits, a parenting book that will change the way you think about keeping your children safe. She makes the difficult topic of sexual abuse and assault less scary and consistently impresses her audience with knowledge, commitment, and warmth.
Feather Berkower (00:30.772)
Thank you.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (00:58.542)
And I'm so, so excited to have you on the podcast today because this is such a huge topic that I think most of us are scared to talk about. But it is so, so important. And it's something that I signed up for your workshop for March. And I'm so excited. And I also wish that I had signed up six years ago when I first became a mom because I feel like, not that it's too late, but I just feel like this is such important information for parents to know from day one. So thank you so much for being on the podcast, Feather.
Feather Berkower (01:28.508)
You are so welcome. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (01:31.374)
So my husband is also a licensed clinical social worker. And so I'm always just so curious to hear about how you kind of fell into this work, what kind of first piqued your interest about this line of work, and how you got into this type of specialty.
Feather Berkower (01:48.06)
Yeah, I'd be glad to share that and I'll make this, I'll try to make this really brief. So back in the 80s, I'm a lot older than you, so back in the 80s when I was studying for my undergraduate BA degree, I was going for a degree in women's studies and at San Francisco State University and I had no idea what I would do with that except I wanted to work with children. That's what I knew. I was required to do an internship to graduate. And so I began to look for some kind of program working with children. Simultaneous to that, I was at home one evening with my roommate, and we were watching television. And across the TV came a movie called Something About Amelia, which is a made -for -TV movie about incest. It's about a 13 -year -old girl who was being incested by her father. At that point in my early 20s, I had really very little experience with this topic. I'm not a survivor. I didn't know anyone who was sexually abused, although we all know someone because of the statistics, but at the time I did not know anyone and it really wasn't in my realm of understanding. I watched the two hour movie and I was riveted and some for whatever reason I
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (02:58.934)
Mm -hmm.
Feather Berkower (03:13.702)
deeply understood the dynamics that I was seeing in this movie around sex abuse with the family, with the community, with the mother, the father, everyone involved. And at the end of the movie, I turned to my roommate and said that’s my lifes work.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (03:28.054)
Wow. Oh my gosh.
Feather Berkower (03:29.244)
Yeah, and I went on to get in child assault prevention and started working in the schools with children. We can talk about that evolution if you want, but I no longer work with children, only with parents and caregivers and youth organizations. Yeah.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (03:46.382)
Wow, that's so powerful. I just got chills when you were talking about that story of just how it was just like a calling. Like you just, it was so obvious to you that that's what you wanted to do. And I didn't know that you lived in San Francisco. I live in San Francisco too. So you just mentioned this idea of everybody knows someone because the statistics are so high. Can you share a little bit about what those statistics are and why is it something that is so prevalent but so undertalked about?
Feather Berkower (04:17.66)
Yeah, so it depends on what study you read, Rachael, and the researcher you're looking at. But generally, the statistics tell us about one in 10 children will be sexually abused by the time they're 18 years old. Some studies say one in four girls and one in six boys. Really, it depends on the studies. But those numbers are really under, those numbers are not accurate because most children don't tell when they're sexually abused.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (04:24.546)
Mm -hmm.
Feather Berkower (04:47.004)
So those are the reported statistics. Those are kids who tell or adults who report as adults when research is being done. Really more like half the population has experienced some type of sexual abuse and that includes boys as well as girls when they're children. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (05:03.918)
Wow, that's, I mean, I'm just thinking about, I have two school -aged kids, and so I'm thinking about their classes of 20 and how many kids that is. That is a really huge, scary number. So who's responsible for protecting our kids and how can we protect them? Because I think people assume that they'll be safe with certain types of caregivers or with certain people in our lives, and sadly, that's not the case. So how do we as parents protect our kids and then how do we kind of expand that into our broader network because we can't be around our kids 24 seven.
Feather Berkower (05:39.834)
No, you can't. As much as parents say, I don't need this education because I'm always with my children. That's something that I hear so often. And that comes from discomfort. You asked a minute ago, why is it so hard to talk about it? It's because it's so uncomfortable. And what I always ask, and you'll hear this in the workshop when you come in March, is are you willing to feel a little uncomfortable so your children never have to? Because when we turn our backs to this crime, they are the ones who pay the price. So.
Feather Berkower (06:09.788)
To answer your question, who's responsible, adults are responsible for protecting children from sexual abuse. Children can learn protection skills. It's important that they do. However, ultimately, it is up to adults to protect children, not for children to protect themselves. And we can do this. You asked, how can parents protect their children? What can you be doing? There's so many things. And in this short time we have together, I think I'll just explain this concept that I teach, which is called the prevention team. And what that means basically is if you have two children, school -aged children, so they go to school, perhaps they go to gymnastics, perhaps they go to soccer, you get a nanny, a babysitter, family who help you care for them, whomever is around your child, whomever you choose to put your child in the care of, the way you can best protect them is by having ongoing, direct, honest, and really rigorous conversations with the people who care for your children about the body safety rules that you implement in your home with your children.
And that's what we'll go into in the workshop. What are those body safety rules that you teach your children, which I said a minute ago that adults are responsible, not children. Children still need some of those boundaries, but really how we best protect children is by then you telling the nanny what the body safety boundaries and rules are.
And you sharing with the school teacher, my child doesn't keep secrets. You sharing with family members, we teach consent in our family. We are, please ask for permission for a hug and a kiss and not demand one. So whatever it is that your boundaries are in your home, you're sharing those with other people, older teenagers who care for your children and adults. And the reason for this, Rachael, is because that...
There's no guarantee, but by discussing these concepts with others, it is a deterrent to a person who possibly sexually offends. So for instance, if you're interviewing a potential babysitter and you're talking about the fact that your child already had dessert tonight and doesn't need another bowl of ice cream and she had a bath, or you want the person to give a bath, but your child...
Feather Berkower (08:34.14)
goes to bed at this time, or whatever you're weaving in about the rules and the boundaries, that you're including topics like secrets and surprises and touching rules and social media if your children are old enough and screen time, whatever it is that's important to you, but you're including body safety information. You're raising the level of conversation to include sex abuse. You don't have to call it sex abuse. You can call it body safety.
If that person sitting across from you has a sexual behavior problem with children and you've discussed these topics before you hire, not just how much they charge and when are they available, what do you think Rachael, that person just might do?
Feather Berkower (09:22.588)
Do you have any guesses?
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (09:24.046)
I think that they would probably look for easier prey. They'd probably be like, no thanks, I don't want this job anymore. You know too much. You're on to me. Yeah.
Feather Berkower (09:26.976)
Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly. Yep. And I can't promise that, but that's what I learn when I meet with people who sexually abuse children. So to answer your question, this is the best method that we have to prevent this by learning about the problem, teaching kids some skills, but mostly speaking about it with the caregivers in your life and reminding yourself daily with your children that the denial and turning away from this won't happen or that person couldn't do this is an opening. So it's really staying on top of it.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (10:12.366)
Yeah, I love that advice. And I think also I hear a lot of people in this type of space talking about the importance of teaching your child like the anatomical names, the correct names for their body parts and things like that so that they can talk about if something, God forbid, did happen. It's funny you brought up to telling people in your life, whether it's grandparents or whoever, about these body safety rules, because I don't know if you're on TikTok at all, but I posted a TikTok over the holidays where I was kind of just giving advice to grandparents, like, you know, just kind of a silly video about, hey, here's how to like not upset your daughter -in -law or your daughter over the holidays with your grandchildren.
One of the things I said was, please don't touch your grandchildren if they're telling you to stop. And don't like give unwanted hugs, unwanted touch, even though you're the grandparent, like you're not allowed to do that. You don't have free rain over their body just because you're their grandparent. And people got really mad and really offended by that. And a lot of the grandparents thought it was way too far. They thought that that was a ridiculous boundary to set. And they really just did not understand how important it was to them. How would you recommend explaining it to someone like that who's so resistant to following that boundary? Or would you just say, "Okay, we're just not going to be able to be around you then if you can't follow these body safety rules?"
Feather Berkower (11:38.62)
Yeah. Well, you, I mean, that's a personal decision, how you handle it, like cutting off contact or educating, but you have an opportunity to educate the person here. And I promise you in March, at the end of March, when you come to the workshop, we will be doing a role play, that exact role play. We will be playing it out. You'll be doing it with other participants. And so here's the deal. I promise you when a grandparent,
comes from that perspective and then they learn this information and come to this workshop, there is a total shift. There just is.
All the time. Anyone can come. Your pediatricians, your school teachers, your friends, anyone can come. Yes, and grandparents often come, nannies, babysitters. So here's the thing about your question. Your children are not responsible for managing the feelings of other people. Okay, so the boundary is a child or the body safety rule that no one is allowed to kiss or hug them without permission, without consent. And they don't kiss and hug other people without consent either. So if you ask a family member, excuse me, not to respect your child's yes or no, whatever it is, if the grandparent says, can I have a kiss? May I have a kiss? That's the language versus give me a kiss or give me a hug. May I have one?
And if the child says no, hopefully they get to practice that no with a safe adult, then it's to be respected. But you're asking how do you deal with the grandparent who disagrees with that? I think the best you can do is explain the why behind it. Because you're not trying to alienate family, you're trying to invite them onto this prevention team and to connect and be close with them. So let's assume grandma and grandpa don't want your child to be hurt.
Okay, they want your child to be safe. So a simple explanation can be something like, Hey, mom, this consent issue about, you know, Lily getting permission to say yes or no to a hug. This is not about you. This is about giving Lily the permission to practice saying no with you, her safe grandma in case she's ever in a situation where she's not safe. But if you demand the hug and you demand the kiss and you think this is ridiculous, how in the world would she ever say, try to resist if it were someone else that was unsafe? You get to help us model. And if you think this is ridiculous, you're teaching Lily that she is not the boss of her own body. So my point being, try your best to explain what's behind it. Not that you're just trying to set these rules in your generation that are so different, you know. What do you think of that?
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (14:34.958)
Right. I love that. I absolutely love that. I think that's genius. And I actually had my own parents on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. And my dad was kind of resistant to this one because my parents are like super affectionate and they love my kids and they don't get to see them very often. And so my dad was very resistant to this idea until I explained it kind of in that way. And I don't think I explained it quite as well as you just did. So that I love the way that you just said that. And I think that that would really empower grandparents and make them feel like they were apart of something. instead of feeling like they were being pushed out. Ok we’re going to take a really quick break and we’ll be right back.
Okay, Feather, one thing that you have talked about today is that we as adults are responsible for protecting children. But then of course, there are things we need to teach our kids to to keep them safe and things we need to talk about with them, especially as they get older. But I know that even when they're young, there are things that we should be teaching them. So a lot of parents, I think, are really resistant to having these conversations because they don't want to taint their child's innocence and they feel like they're going to be taking their innocence away by having these conversations. How do we talk to our little kids about this so that we can keep them safe without scaring them?
Feather Berkower (16:00.636)
So I would say the same way you talk about putting a helmet on your child when they ride a bicycle, that we put a helmet on to protect our head and our body if we fall off the bike. And we put a seatbelt on the car in case the car bumps another car. And that will probably not happen, but we wear a seatbelt just in case. And we don't run around a swimming pool so we don't slip on the water that's outside the pool.
So you approach body safety the same way you do any other safety issue, running in the street, driving on snow or ice when it's teenagers, whatever the example might be for the age of the child. And so we don't use fear tactics. It's not about terrifying a child with, one example of this is when parents teach about strangers, which I don't at all, but it's to tell a child, don't go with a stranger or they'll put you in their trunk and I'll never see you again. That's not the way we approach this.
So I suggest start at infancy. It's never too late. You have school -aged children, it is not too late. But parents do say often, I wish I would have learned this and come to this workshop when my child was an infant. But you can start an infancy by using correct terminology for genitals when you're changing diapers.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (17:09.324)
Mm -hmm.
Feather Berkower (17:21.692)
when you're bathing your child, calling their genitals the correct names. You can teach body safety at bath time, handing your child the washcloth and letting them know that they can clean their ears and they can clean inside their belly button and their spine and their vagina and vulva, and then you weave in the correct words. You can teach body safety at opportune times in life like birthdays and. Mother's Day is coming up and Father's Day and the winter holidays where you're talking about secrets versus surprises.
So often, Rachel, the thought of sex abuse prevention with children education is so scary to people. But when you break it down, it's really about these topics that most parents really want to learn about. You know, when they hear it that way. And one other piece of it is sexual development in children. You know, when your children start to ask questions about bodies, some children will never ask. So I do think it's a parent's responsibility to be proactive and teach, but the whole issue around sexual development, you do it as those topics come up throughout life. So that's what I would say. Weave these topics in just like you do other safety measures. I mean, how often do you remind your children to put their seatbelt on? Every day, yeah.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (18:46.958)
Yeah I love that because I think that's a lot less intimidating than feeling like you have to have this big, serious sit down conversation with your kids and think of what to say. I think if you just weave it, like you said, weave it into your normal conversations and talk about it in just a very matter of fact way that that seems a lot less scary and a lot less intimidating to everyone probably, right?
Feather Berkower (18:55.9)
Your two year olds should know that they're the boss of their body. And if they're marching around in the world, I'm the boss of my body, I'm in charge of my body, they may not even understand what that means, but that voice decreases their vulnerability.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (19:13.838)
What are some things that increase vulnerability or increase risk?
Feather Berkower (19:29.692)
Good question. And I'm gonna answer this without blame on any parent, okay? But what I know, what we all know in this field, what I've learned sitting with people who sexually offend, which I've done quite a bit, is the biggest barriers and what increase vulnerability are discomfort, meaning you're so uncomfortable that you turn away and you do not wanna learn this.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (19:35.5)
Mm -hmm.
Feather Berkower (19:55.132)
I don't need this. I don't want to feel paranoid. This won't happen to my child. So the discomfort, which leads to denial, denial is what a person who offends needs and it is their best friend. And discomfort is what they are counting on. And your children are counting on you to push through that. Those are the two most common vulnerabilities, I would say. Opportunity and access. That's what increases vulnerability. Allowing children to be in certain situations without screening what those are. Sending children on play dates and sleepovers, or having children in your home without having conversations with the other caregivers about what the matching expectations, those kinds of things.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (20:43.886)
Yeah. Yeah. And the sleepover topic is another big one in the parenting world, especially on TikTok. There's a lot of videos going around about that right now. And just people having this debate of should kids be allowed to go to sleepovers? Should they not? And it's very interesting because a lot of adults are coming on and kind of telling their story like, no, this is what happened to me at a sleepover as a child. And that's why I will never allow a sleepover. So I just think that that's really interesting that you brought that up and that you also brought up earlier the idea of not teaching kids about strangers. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Feather Berkower (21:19.612)
Sure, I mean, I'm not saying don't teach them about strangers. I'm saying I don't include that in my work. The reality of a child being, yeah, the reality of children being kidnapped by strangers, yes, it happens. We know it has and it does, it has, and it's horrific. And for the parent who has a child who that has experienced that, all of our love goes to them, right? But it is rare.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (21:28.812)
Okay.
Feather Berkower (21:47.836)
When we're talking about child sex abuse, almost always the perpetrator is either another child who we don't call perpetrators. I just want to make that clear, but up to 40 % of child sex abuse happens with peers and with siblings. Okay, so siblings, sexual abuse and peers. And almost all of the time, it's someone the child knows, loves and trusts, which is you also who knows that person.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (22:04.238)
Really? Wow.
Feather Berkower (22:16.636)
And that's why I don't include it is that I'm not saying you shouldn't teach your children about quote unquote strangers, but children, young children do not grasp the concept of a stranger. A stranger is a monster in their head. It's the myth. And so the reality if you say, don't go with a stranger and a person they don't know walks up and says, mommy had an accident, come with me. Your child will probably go. The studies show that. So I prefer to focus on really how this crime works with children, which is on play dates and sleepovers and in your own family and in their school and gymnastics and church and all the places where children gather. That is the reality.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (22:56.942)
Yeah, I think that's a really important thing for parents to just be aware of too, because I grew up like in the 90s and with Oprah and all those shows that used to talk about all those very sensationalized kidnapping stories and things like that. So my mom would always have those talks with us about if somebody comes and tells you that they need you to come with them, you have to give them a password or you have to do all this stuff. And I feel like there was so much emphasis on this stranger danger thing that would probably never happen. And then there was almost nothing on what to do if, you know, your uncle is acting weird or telling you to do something that makes you uncomfortable or, you know, things like that. We're going to take one more quick break and then we will be right back.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (23:42.318)
So Feather, before we wrap up, it's so hard to imagine this happening. And I'm sure that many people listening had this happen to them as children or have even been through it with their own child. What are some of the signs that we can look for in our kids for when abuse has actually already happened? Are there things that we should be looking out for? I know you talk so much about prevention, which is so key. And I'm so glad that you do this work. And sometimes it's not possible for us to prevent it. So how can we know what has happened and what should we do when we suspect abuse has occurred?
Feather Berkower (24:21.276)
Yeah, great question. So first I'll say that not all children show signs. Okay, so we can't be guaranteed that there will be overt, obvious signs. Very often there are. And when there are signs, I would say the biggest sign you would probably see is some drastic change of behavior if you're going to see the signs. You know your child best. You know their affect, you know what developmental stage they're in, and you would see a change in their behavior. So eating behaviors, sleeping behaviors. Yes, young children have changes in their sleep, but there might be many signs at once.
So a child who is typically very assertive and outgoing and engaged becomes withdrawn and depressed and cries a lot or has nightmares, doesn't want to be with a particular person or… has a special friend that they're so attached to there that seems odd to you. In my book, Off Limits, I have a whole chapter on the different signs and the different developmental stages. Sexually aggressive play between their peers or with their stuffed animals or toys. Sexually aggressive language and advanced sexual knowledge and language.
If you have a five or six year old who's...acting out or even talking about oral sex or intercourse or simulating those types of behaviors, that is a definite red flag. You won't always see that. There are so many survivors who say, I didn't show signs at all, but your gut instinct, your intuition about your child and about the people who are around them cannot be overstated. When something's off, you typically feel it. And so what I would recommend is listening to it and getting some support.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (26:27.726)
So would you recommend bringing it up with your child or does it kind of depend on their age, whether or not you ask questions or is it best to just go right to a therapist if you have these suspicions? What do you think a parent should do if they're worried that this has happened?
Feather Berkower (26:40.7)
Yeah, I mean, sure, it really, I think it depends on the situation. If you suspect something has happened, what I would say is do not ask leading questions. Did your school teacher touch your private parts? That's leading. Instead, if you're concerned, I would say, are you safe? Is there something bothering you? Are you worried? I'm here listening. I mean, when children try and tell, I said they don't usually tell, but they do try to tell indirectly. We're gonna go through examples of this in the workshop. They blurt statements out or they show it through their affect or they, I don't wanna play those games with grandpa anymore. Okay, if you're not tuned in and listening and educated about this, you might say, grandpa loves you, that's not nice. Versus, tell me more about that.
What games are you talking about? So inquiring if you are hearing things that feel odd to you and asking your child, it seems like something's wrong. Are you safe? Are you okay? And that depends on the child's age as well. And if you can't communicate with your child and you're really concerned, a play therapist is always an option to help you assess what might be happening with their behavior.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (28:03.054)
Okay, that's really, really great to know. Thank you so much. I am so excited to join this workshop. And can you just share with people where else they can find all of your resources and where they can connect with you? And I'll put everything in the show notes as well so people can click on the links.
Feather Berkower (28:06.268)
Yeah. Okay, so the workshop you're coming to, I think Rachael, is March 23rd and 30th. They're done in two parts, yeah, over two weekends via Zoom, so it's all live with lots of practice and questions. And you can register at parentingsafechildren .com slash calendar. And that's my website. Once you're there, you can click on all the other tabs, the resources in my book and everything's there. Also Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, just parenting safe children.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (28:50.23)
Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much, Feather. This topic is so, so important, maybe one of the most important episodes I've done. And I really, really hope that some of you listening will join me and my husband when we are at the workshop this month. And if you can't make it this month, then you have them very regularly, right? Like once a month or...
Feather Berkower (28:57.212)
I have one in March, I have three in April. Yeah, I might have one in May and yeah, just check the calendar, yeah.
Rachael Shepard-Ohta (29:13.198)
Oh great, okay.
Okay, awesome. So they're always coming up. All right. Well, thank you so much, Feather. It was such a pleasure to speak with you today and I really appreciate you taking the time.
Feather Berkower (29:23.456)
Absolutely. Thanks, Rachel.
